1 STATE OF INDIANA ) ) SS: 2 COUNTY OF MONROE ) 3 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF MONROE COUNTY 4 CAUSE NO. 53C06-2203-PL-000509 5 6 COUNTY RESIDENTS AGAINST ANNEXATION, ) INC., an Indiana not for profit ) 7 corporation, et al., ) ) 8 Remonstrators/Appellants/Petitioners, ) ) 9 -vs- ) ) 10 THE COMMON COUNCIL of the City of ) Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, ) 11 et al., ) ) 12 Respondents. ) 13 14 DEPOSITION OF CHERYL SCISCOE 15 16 The deposition upon oral examination of CHERYL SCISCOE, a witness produced and sworn before 17 me, Janine A. Ferren, RMR, CRR, CSR-IL No. 84-4852, Notary Public in and for the County of Hamilton, 18 State of Indiana, taken on behalf of the Respondents, at the offices of Bloomington City 19 Hall, 401 North Morton Street, Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, on the 1st day of March 2024, 20 scheduled to commence at 9:00 a.m., pursuant to the Indiana Rules of Trial Procedure with written 21 notice as to time and place thereof. 22 23 24 25 2 1 APPEARANCES 2 FOR THE REMONSTRATORS/APPELLANTS/PETITIONERS: 3 William J. Beggs BUNGER & ROBERTSON 4 211 South College Avenue Bloomington, IN 47404 5 812.332.9295 wjbeggs@lawbr.com 6 7 FOR THE RESPONDENTS: 8 Andrew M. McNeil 9 Stephen C. Unger BOSE McKINNEY & EVANS LLP 10 111 Monument Circle Suite 2700 11 Indianapolis, IN 46204 317.684.5000 12 amcneil@boselaw.com sunger@boselaw.com 13 14 ALSO PRESENT: 15 Margaret Clements 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 INDEX OF EXAMINATION 2 Page 3 DIRECT EXAMINATION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5 Questions by Andrew M. McNeil 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 INDEX OF EXHIBITS 2 Previously Marked Exhibits: Page 3 Exhibit 28 - Amended and Supplemented 19 Answers of County Residents 4 Against Annexation, Inc. to City of Bloomington's 5 Interrogatories 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 (Time noted: 8:58 a.m.) 2 CHERYL SCISCOE, 3 having been duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole 4 truth, and nothing but the truth relating to said 5 matter, was examined and testified as follows: 6 7 DIRECT EXAMINATION, 8 QUESTIONS BY ANDREW M. McNEIL: 9 Q State your name for the record, please. 10 A Cheryl Sciscoe. 11 Q Ms. Sciscoe, my name is Andrew McNeil. We met 12 briefly off the record. I'm one of the 13 attorneys for the City of Bloomington and the 14 annexation remonstrance case. 15 Have you ever been through a deposition 16 before? 17 A I have. 18 Q How many times? 19 A Once. 20 Q When was that? 21 A In Maryland back in 1989, 1990. 22 Q What was the nature of the -- 23 A Divorce. 24 Q So you've been through the process. Just the 25 limited basic ground rules are, I'm going to ask 6 1 you a series of questions, and it's your 2 responsibility to answer them as completely and 3 as truthfully as you can. Do you understand 4 that? 5 A Yes. 6 Q If you don't understand my question, will you 7 let me know? 8 A Yes. 9 Q If you need to have a question repeated or 10 rephrased, will you let me know that too? 11 A Yes. 12 Q Our goal is to get this done in 45 minutes or 13 less. If you need to take a break for any 14 reason, just let me know and we will see what we 15 can do to accommodate that request. 16 A Okay. 17 Q Did you do anything to prepare for the 18 deposition today? 19 A Just kind of went through my head what you guys 20 might ask. 21 Q My last question of the day will be, "So did I 22 ask the questions you thought I would?" 23 Did you make any notes in preparing for 24 your testimony? 25 A No. 7 1 Q Did you meet with Mr. Beggs or anybody at his 2 law firm? 3 A I had a phone call asking me if I received -- 4 they thought I'd get a notice of hearing. I got 5 a subpoena, and just someone from his office 6 asking if I had any questions. 7 Q Did you have any questions? 8 A No, not really, because there's only a few 9 questions that I feel like you can ask. 10 Q What are the questions you feel like I can ask? 11 A Why I don't want to be annexed. 12 Q That's one. Any others? 13 A Whether, you know, I'm on city water or sewer. 14 Q Sure. 15 A Okay. 16 Q Well, I'll start asking questions now. 17 A Okay. 18 Q What's your address? 19 A 412 South Woodfield Lane, Bloomington. 20 Q Is that in one of the annexation areas? 21 A Yes, 1A. 22 Q How long have you lived there? 23 A Twenty-four years. 24 Q Who lives there with you? 25 A Nobody. 8 1 Q Do you own any other property in Area 1A or 1B? 2 A No. 3 Q Do you have any plans to move? 4 A No. 5 Q Did you at some point sign a petition opposing 6 the annexation? 7 A I did not. 8 Q Where do you work? 9 A Oh, opposing? 10 Q Yes. 11 A Yes. 12 Q So you did sign a petition back in the fall, 13 winter of 2021? 14 A Yes. Well, I signed both of them: the intent 15 to remonstrate, and then to actually oppose. 16 Q The intent to remonstrate petition you're 17 talking about, was that in the summer of 2021? 18 A I believe so. 19 Q And then the actual petition to opposes was in 20 October-November-December time frame? 21 A Sounds about right yes. 22 Q Where do you work? 23 A I am retired. 24 Q Where did you retire from? 25 A IU Health. 9 1 Q When did you retire? 2 A In 2019, January. 3 Q When you worked at IU Health, where were you 4 stationed? 5 A I was kind of all over. I was south central 6 region in all the hospitals there. The last few 7 years before I retired, which was my decision -- 8 prompted my decision because they moved my job 9 up to Indy. So I was up at Methodist and then 10 at the Gateway Plaza on Illinois Street. 11 Q What did you do for IU Health? 12 A I'm a financial analyst. 13 Q When you signed the remonstrance petition, did 14 you understand that you were expressing 15 opposition to the annexation? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Do you still oppose the annexation? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Please tell me all the reasons why you oppose 20 the annexation. 21 A Okay. Like I said, I bought my house 24 years 22 ago, and I intentionally bought out in the 23 county because I did not want to live in the 24 city. The current reasons why I oppose it is 25 because, if I am annexed into the city, my 10 1 property tax will go up $800 a year. I'm on a 2 fixed income. Also, trash will be added to my 3 water bill. And currently, I buy those orange 4 bags and I take it to the recycle center on Oard 5 Road, which is in the county. 6 There are certain things we can do in the 7 county that we can't do in the city. I 8 personally don't have a fire pit, but some of my 9 neighbors do. And some of my neighbors have 10 swimming pools; I do not. And then there's some 11 invasive species that I would be required to 12 remove if the City annexed me. 13 Q Any other -- we'll go back through several of 14 these, but any others, just at a high level, any 15 other reasons why you oppose the annexation? 16 A I can't think of anything. 17 Q I think you said in the beginning of your answer 18 that one of the reasons you oppose it now might 19 have been the property taxes. Is that a newer 20 basis for your opposition? 21 A Well, because I wasn't in the city, and to be 22 honest, I had no clue -- you know, I knew what 23 property tax was, but I had no idea that the 24 city paid more than I did out in the county. 25 But that's been a new revelation to me that I 11 1 saw on a list that, if I'm annexed, it will cost 2 this much more. 3 Q What list are you referring to? 4 A There was a list that was going around the 5 homeowners, that showed us how much our taxes 6 would go up. 7 Q Do you know who prepared this list? 8 A I'm sorry, I do not. 9 Q Do you know who was circulating it? 10 A I do not. 11 Q Do you know what the County Residents Against 12 Annexation organization is? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Margaret Clements' organization? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Was that organization involved with this list 17 that you're talking about? 18 A No, not that I know of. 19 Q What did the list look like? 20 A It was just your name, your address, and I 21 believe how much the property taxes were and 22 then how much they would go up. 23 Q And how did you receive this list? Was it by 24 email or a piece of paper? 25 A No. I just saw it at one of the County 12 1 meetings. 2 Q When did you see that, you believe? 3 A Oh, gosh. '21, '22, sometime in that time 4 frame. 5 Q You had mentioned that this property tax 6 increase issue was something that more recently 7 came to your attention. Was that this '21, '22 8 time period that you're referring to? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Other than look at that list, have you done 11 anything else to try to determine or calculate 12 the impact of a property tax increase from the 13 annexation? 14 A I called the city water customer service, asking 15 how much more I pay than city residents for my 16 water and sewer. 17 Q So have you been on city water and sewer the 18 entire 24 years -- 19 A Yes. 20 Q -- you've owned your house? 21 A Uh-huh. 22 Q And what did you learn from that phone call? 23 A Well, she couldn't tell me much because she was 24 just comparing a city resident bill to mine. 25 She told me the wastewater rate per thousand 13 1 was, I was paying $1.07 more, but she couldn't 2 tell me the water difference because they also 3 have sanitation added to their bill. 4 Q Have you heard of there being a surcharge for 5 out-of-city users of the sewer and water system? 6 A No. 7 Q Do you get a monthly water and sewer bill? 8 A I do. 9 Q Do you get it online or in the mail? 10 A I get a paper copy. 11 Q Is there a line item on your paper copy that 12 says "surcharge" or something along those lines? 13 A No. 14 Q Do you have a mortgage on your property? 15 A No. It's paid off. 16 Q Congratulations. 17 A That's why I can retire. 18 Q So when you get your property tax bill, you pay 19 it directly? It doesn't come through an escrow 20 or mortgage company? 21 A Right. I pay it twice a year. 22 Q Sitting here today, do you know what your 2023 23 property tax total amount was? 24 A I think it was close to $900 every six months. 25 Q So when I had asked you if you had done anything 14 1 other than looking at the list at that County 2 meeting to understand the tax impact of the 3 annexation, you mentioned you called the city 4 water department. 5 A Uh-huh. 6 Q I'm going to go back to my question. Have you 7 looked at any online tax calculators either 8 through the City of Bloomington or the County or 9 the State? 10 A No. 11 Q Do you have the homestead exemption on your 12 property? 13 A I did. 14 Q You did or you do? 15 A Well, I did when I bought it, so I'm assuming I 16 still do, yes. 17 Q Have your property taxes increased in the last 18 five years? 19 A Oh, yes. Every year they go up. 20 Q Do you understand why? 21 A Some of the reason is because of the Monroe 22 County school district referendums that get 23 voted in. Some of it is my assessed value. 24 Q The assessed value has increased every year? 25 A Of the home, yes. Well, not in my mind but in 15 1 the City's mind -- or in the County's mind. 2 Q The County, right. 3 A Yeah. 4 Q Right. Have you ever challenged or tried to 5 appeal an assessment? 6 A No, because my parents did one year and they 7 told me what a hassle it was. 8 Q Not worth it? 9 A All they did was they knocked the amount that 10 they were disputing off of the house and put it 11 onto the land, so it didn't do any good. 12 Q But in the years where your assessed value has 13 increased and, as a result, your tax liability 14 has increased, have you paid your property taxes 15 every year? 16 A I have. 17 Q What year did you pay off your mortgage? 18 A Oh, man, I don't remember the exact year, but it 19 was probably a few years before I retired in 20 2019. 21 Q What is your understanding of the charge of the 22 trash being added to the water bill? 23 A Just that sanitation is -- the City includes it 24 in the water and sewer bill, and we are locked 25 in to whoever the City provides for that trash 16 1 pickup. 2 Q Do you know what the incremental cost is for 3 that service? 4 A I do not. 5 Q And that's the phone call you made to the water 6 department, was that in part what you were 7 trying to find out? 8 A Yeah. I was trying to figure out, and because 9 it wasn't separate on the bill that she was 10 looking at from somebody who lived in the city, 11 they weren't exactly like me. She couldn't give 12 me any kind of breakdowns. 13 Q Other than that one phone call, did you take any 14 steps to determine the incremental cost of the 15 waste removal? 16 A Well, other than, if I'm paying $1.07 more for 17 the wastewater, I'm probably paying $1-something 18 more for the water. And then sanitation, I have 19 no clue of what that would be. 20 Q Right. But other than making that one phone 21 call, have you asked anywhere else or -- 22 A No. 23 Q -- looked at any other information? 24 A No. 25 Q Currently, where you buy the orange bags and go 17 1 to the recycle center, how many times a week do 2 you take waste to the recycle center? 3 A Once a week. 4 Q You mentioned that you have a concern that if 5 you're annexed, there are certain things you 6 cannot do, and you mentioned a fire pit and 7 swimming pool? 8 A Uh-huh. 9 Q What is your understanding on fire pits within 10 the city limits? 11 A That they're not allowed. 12 Q At all? 13 A At all. 14 Q What's your understanding of swimming pools with 15 respect to if they're in the city? 16 A That they're not allowed either. 17 Q At all? 18 A At all, yeah. 19 Q But you mentioned you do not have a fire pit or 20 a swimming pool. Do you have any present 21 intention to install either? 22 A No, sir. 23 Q You mentioned some invasive species that you'd 24 be required to remove. 25 A Uh-huh. 18 1 Q What invasive species are you referring to? 2 A I have beautiful burning bushes as a hedge on my 3 front patio and one big one in the backyard. 4 Q When you say you would have to remove them, what 5 is that understanding based on? 6 A Based on the City list on their website of the 7 invasive species that they're requiring their 8 residents to remove. 9 Q And the burning bushes are on that list? 10 A Uh-huh. 11 Q You have to say "yes." 12 A Yes. 13 Q Thank you. It's just so we have a clean 14 transcript of what is said. 15 Any other invasive species that you have on 16 your property besides the burning bushes? 17 A Occasionally I'll get the garlic mustard, and I 18 pull that up. 19 Q I'm not familiar with that. Is that, like, 20 something you do every year? 21 A Yeah. The city has a weed wrangle every year, 22 and garlic mustard is one of the things they 23 pull out. It's just a tall green plant with a 24 white flower on it. 25 19 1 (Deposition Exhibit 28 previously marked 2 for identification.) 3 Q That document in front of you is Exhibit 28 that 4 was identified earlier this week as CRAA's, 5 County Residents Against Annexation's amended 6 and supplemented answers to interrogatories. 7 Do you have that in front of you? 8 A Yeah, I do. 9 Q If you could please turn to page 3, question 10 3 -- sorry, page 2, question 3, my mistake. It 11 says, "Identify each fact witness that you plan 12 to call to testify in this lawsuit and provide a 13 summary of their anticipated testimony." 14 Do you see that? 15 A Uh-huh, I do. 16 Q If you go to page 4, the top of that page, do 17 you see your name? 18 A Yes. 19 Q If says, "If called, Ms. Sciscoe would be asked 20 to testify as a landowner about her opposition 21 to annexation, city services versus other 22 provided services, and the impact of annexation 23 upon her." 24 A Yes. 25 Q Is there anything outside of what we've already 20 1 talked about that you would put into those 2 categories? 3 A Can't think of anything. 4 Q And I understand you didn't -- you are not the 5 author of this, I understand that these are not 6 your words. But I just want to -- just as a 7 general matter, do you believe we've covered 8 everything that -- 9 A Yes. 10 Q -- would be represented here? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And if you would turn to page 12 -- sorry, 13 page 11, question 12. 14 Do you have that question in front of you? 15 A Yes. 16 Q The question asks the respondent to "Identify 17 and list all facts and documents supporting your 18 contention that the annexation will have a 19 significant financial impact upon the residents 20 and/or landowners -- owners of land in the 21 annexation territory," and then identify 22 witnesses." 23 Do you see that? 24 A I do, yes. 25 Q If you turn to page 12, do you see the heading 21 1 "Supplemental Answer"? 2 A Yes. 3 Q And then where it says, "If called to testify, 4 the following individuals may be asked to 5 testify about the significant economic impacts 6 of the annexation upon Areas 1A and 1B," and 7 your name is listed. 8 Do you see that? 9 A I do, yes. 10 Q Other than the property tax issue that you've 11 already described and the waste removal service 12 you've already described, are there other -- are 13 you aware of any other potential financial 14 impacts upon you if the annexation is affirmed? 15 A No, not currently. 16 Q If you look down further on page 12, there is a 17 question 13. 18 A Yes. 19 Q It starts the same way, "Identify the facts and 20 documents supporting your contention that the 21 annexation is not in the best interest of owners 22 of land in the annexation territory." 23 Do you see that? 24 A Yes. 25 Q If you turn to page 13, there's a supplemental 22 1 answer, "See Supplemental Answer Number 5. In 2 addition, if called to testify the following 3 would be asked to testify about the impact of 4 the annexation upon them or upon their 5 business," and you're the first name listed. 6 Do you see that? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Do you have anything to add in response to this 9 question that you haven't already described? 10 A No. 11 Q You can set that aside. 12 Are you familiar with the City of 13 Bloomington's fiscal plan? 14 A No. 15 Q Do you know what a fiscal plan is in the context 16 of an annexation? 17 A No. 18 Q Do you have any information about the population 19 density on a per-acre basis in Area 1A or 1B? 20 A No. 21 Q Do you have any information on the percentage by 22 which Area 1A or 1B are subdivided? 23 A No. 24 MR. McNEIL: Let's go off the record for a 25 second. 23 1 (A recess was taken between 9:19 a.m. and 2 9:21 a.m.) 3 MR. McNEIL: Ms. Sciscoe, I have no further 4 questions for you. 5 THE WITNESS: Okay. 6 MR. McNEIL: Thank you for your time. 7 MR. BEGGS: No questions. Thank you very 8 much. 9 THE STENOGRAPHER: Are the witnesses 10 reading and signing? 11 MR. BEGGS: Yes. Just get them all to me 12 and then I'll wrangle those. 13 (Time noted: 9:21 a.m.) 14 AND FURTHER THE DEPONENT SAITH NOT. 15 16 17 ____________________ 18 CHERYL SCISCOE 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 24 1 STATE OF INDIANA ) ) SS: 2 COUNTY OF HAMILTON ) 3 I, Janine A. Ferren, a Notary Public in and 4 for the County of Hamilton, State of Indiana at 5 large, do hereby certify that CHERYL SCISCOE, the 6 deponent herein, was by me first duly sworn to tell 7 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 8 truth in the aforementioned matter; 9 That the foregoing deposition was taken on 10 behalf of the Respondents, at the offices of 11 Bloomington City Hall, 401 North Morton Street, 12 Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, on the 1st day 13 of March 2024, commencing at the hour of 8:58 a.m., 14 pursuant to the Indiana Rules of Trial Procedure; 15 That said deposition was taken down 16 stenographically and transcribed under my 17 direction, and that the typewritten transcript is a 18 true record of the testimony given by the said 19 deponent; and thereafter presented to said deponent 20 for her signature; 21 That the parties were represented by their 22 counsel as aforementioned. 23 I do further certify that I am a disinterested 24 person in this cause of action; that I am not a 25 relative or attorney of any party, or otherwise 25 1 interested in the event of this action, and am not 2 in the employ of the attorneys for any party. 3 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my 4 hand and affixed my notarial seal on this 15th 5 day of March 2024. 6 7 8 <%21167,Signature%> ________________ 9 Janine A. Ferren 10 11 Seal, Notary Public My Commission Expires: 12 State of Indiana April 22, 2024 13 Janine A. Ferren County of Residence: Commission No. NP0681591 Hamilton 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Veritext Legal Solutions 1100 Superior Ave Suite 1820 Cleveland, Ohio 44114 Phone: 216-523-1313 March 15, 2024 To: William J. Beggs, Esq. Case Name: County Residents Against Annexation, Inc., et al. v. The Common Council Of The City Of Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, et al. Veritext Reference Number: 6465811 Witness: Cheryl Sciscoe Deposition Date: 3/1/2024 Dear Sir/Madam: The deposition transcript taken in the above-referenced matter, with the reading and signing having not been expressly waived, has been completed and is available for review and signature. Please call our office to make arrangements for a convenient location to accomplish this or if you prefer a certified transcript can be purchased. If the errata is not returned within thirty days of your receipt of this letter, the reading and signing will be deemed waived. Sincerely, Production Department NO NOTARY REQUIRED IN CA 1 DEPOSITION REVIEW CERTIFICATION OF WITNESS 2 ASSIGNMENT REFERENCE NO: 6465811 3 CASE NAME: County Residents Against Annexation, Inc., et al. v. The Common Council Of The City Of Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, et al. DATE OF DEPOSITION: 3/1/2024 4 WITNESS' NAME: Cheryl Sciscoe 5 In accordance with the Rules of Civil Procedure, I have read the entire transcript of 6 my testimony or it has been read to me. 7 I have made no changes to the testimony as transcribed by the court reporter. 8 _______________ ________________________ 9 Date Cheryl Sciscoe 10 Sworn to and subscribed before me, a Notary Public in and for the State and County, 11 the referenced witness did personally appear and acknowledge that: 12 They have read the transcript; 13 They signed the foregoing Sworn Statement; and 14 Their execution of this Statement is of their free act and deed. 15 I have affixed my name and official seal 16 this ______ day of_____________________, 20____. 17 ___________________________________ 18 Notary Public 19 ___________________________________ Commission Expiration Date 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 DEPOSITION REVIEW CERTIFICATION OF WITNESS 2 ASSIGNMENT REFERENCE NO: 6465811 3 CASE NAME: County Residents Against Annexation, Inc., et al. v. The Common Council Of The City Of Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, et al. DATE OF DEPOSITION: 3/1/2024 4 WITNESS' NAME: Cheryl Sciscoe 5 In accordance with the Rules of Civil Procedure, I have read the entire transcript of 6 my testimony or it has been read to me. 7 I have listed my changes on the attached Errata Sheet, listing page and line numbers as 8 well as the reason(s) for the change(s). 9 I request that these changes be entered as part of the record of my testimony. 10 I have executed the Errata Sheet, as well 11 as this Certificate, and request and authorize that both be appended to the transcript of my 12 testimony and be incorporated therein. 13 _______________ ________________________ Date Cheryl Sciscoe 14 Sworn to and subscribed before me, a 15 Notary Public in and for the State and County, the referenced witness did personally appear 16 and acknowledge that: 17 They have read the transcript; They have listed all of their corrections 18 in the appended Errata Sheet; They signed the foregoing Sworn 19 Statement; and Their execution of this Statement is of 20 their free act and deed. 21 I have affixed my name and official seal 22 this ______ day of_____________________, 20____. 23 ___________________________________ Notary Public 24 ___________________________________ 25 Commission Expiration Date 1 ERRATA SHEET VERITEXT LEGAL SOLUTIONS MIDWEST 2 ASSIGNMENT NO: 3/1/2024 3 PAGE/LINE(S) / CHANGE /REASON 4 ___________________________________________________ 5 ___________________________________________________ 6 ___________________________________________________ 7 ___________________________________________________ 8 ___________________________________________________ 9 ___________________________________________________ 10 ___________________________________________________ 11 ___________________________________________________ 12 ___________________________________________________ 13 ___________________________________________________ 14 ___________________________________________________ 15 ___________________________________________________ 16 ___________________________________________________ 17 ___________________________________________________ 18 ___________________________________________________ 19 _______________ ________________________ 20 Date Cheryl Sciscoe 21 SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO BEFORE ME THIS ________ 22 DAY OF ________________________, 20______ . 23 ___________________________________ Notary Public 24 ___________________________________ 25 Commission Expiration Date