1 STATE OF INDIANA ) ) SS: 2 COUNTY OF MONROE ) 3 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF MONROE COUNTY 4 CAUSE NO. 53C06-2203-PL-000509 5 6 COUNTY RESIDENTS AGAINST ANNEXATION, ) INC., an Indiana not for profit ) 7 corporation, et al., ) ) 8 Remonstrators/Appellants/Petitioners, ) ) 9 -vs- ) ) 10 THE COMMON COUNCIL of the City of ) Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, ) 11 et al., ) ) 12 Respondents. ) 13 14 DEPOSITION OF REX KIRTS 15 16 The deposition upon oral examination of REX KIRTS, a witness produced and sworn before me, 17 Janine A. Ferren, RMR, CRR, CSR-IL No. 84-4852, Notary Public in and for the County of Hamilton, 18 State of Indiana, taken on behalf of the Respondents, at the offices of Bloomington City 19 Hall, 401 North Morton Street, Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, on the 1st day of March 2024, 20 scheduled to commence at 12:00 p.m., pursuant to the Indiana Rules of Trial Procedure with written 21 notice as to time and place thereof. 22 23 24 25 2 1 APPEARANCES 2 FOR THE REMONSTRATORS/APPELLANTS/PETITIONERS: 3 William J. Beggs BUNGER & ROBERTSON 4 211 South College Avenue Bloomington, IN 47404 5 812.332.9295 wjbeggs@lawbr.com 6 7 FOR THE RESPONDENTS: 8 Andrew M. McNeil 9 Stephen C. Unger BOSE McKINNEY & EVANS LLP 10 111 Monument Circle Suite 2700 11 Indianapolis, IN 46204 317.684.5000 12 amcneil@boselaw.com sunger@boselaw.com 13 14 ALSO PRESENT: 15 Margaret Clements 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 INDEX OF EXAMINATION 2 Page 3 DIRECT EXAMINATION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5 Questions by Stephen C. Unger 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 INDEX OF EXHIBITS 2 Previously Marked Exhibits: Page 3 Exhibit 28 - Amended and Supplemented 17 Answers of County Residents 4 Against Annexation, Inc. to City of Bloomington's 5 Interrogatories 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 (Time noted: 11:55 a.m.) 2 REX KIRTS, 3 having been duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole 4 truth, and nothing but the truth relating to said 5 matter, was examined and testified as follows: 6 7 DIRECT EXAMINATION, 8 QUESTIONS BY STEPHEN C. UNGER: 9 Q Could you please state your full name for the 10 record? 11 A Rex William Kirts, K-I-R-T-S. 12 Q Mr. Kirts, we just met. Again, my name is Steve 13 Unger. I'm one of the attorneys representing 14 the City. I'll be asking you the questions 15 today in this deposition. 16 Have you ever been deposed before? 17 A No. 18 MR. UNGER: You want to go off the record 19 for a second? Somebody knocked at the door. 20 (Off the record.) 21 BY MR. UNGER: 22 Q Mr. Kirts, I'm going to be asking you questions. 23 Your obligation is to respond to my questions as 24 truthfully and honestly as completely as you 25 can. Do you understand that? 6 1 A Yes. 2 Q If there's any reason you don't understand one 3 of my questions or you are confused about a 4 question, would you please let me know? 5 A (Nods head.) Yes. 6 Q So as you know, she is typing up everything that 7 you're saying today. So it's important that 8 when I ask you questions, number one, you let me 9 finish the question before you start to answer, 10 and then also that you actually answer "yes" or 11 "no" as opposed to shaking our head or saying 12 "uh-huh," so she can track it. 13 Hopefully this won't take very long. But 14 certainly if you need a break, just let us know 15 and we'll work to accommodate that. 16 Did you do anything today to prepare for 17 your deposition? 18 A Yes. 19 Q What did you do? 20 A I got a call from a lady, and she explained to 21 me -- she asked me if I'd ever done this before 22 and I said no. And she explained what it was 23 and said, "You'll be asked a bunch of 24 questions." And she asked me several 25 questions -- well, yeah, questions, and I 7 1 responded. I was in my car at the time, but I 2 had pulled over and was talking to her through 3 my Bluetooth. 4 Q Do you recall who the lady was? 5 A No. She told me her name and she told me who 6 she was with. 7 Q Who was she with? 8 A I think maybe his company. 9 Q By "him," you mean Mr. Beggs? 10 A Yes, yes, I think. She told me who it was. Was 11 it Robinson or Harrell? Bunger & Harrell? 12 THE WITNESS: Is that your firm, Bill? 13 MR. BEGGS: It was in 1987. 14 Q You understood her to be with Mr. Beggs' office? 15 A She didn't say. 16 Q She didn't say where she was from? 17 A She said -- yeah, she gave me what firm, but I 18 didn't ask her if she was with Mr. Beggs. 19 Q Okay. Did she tell you any questions you might 20 be asked? 21 A She went over a bunch of questions, but I don't 22 know if she knew what I was going to be asked. 23 Q What questions did you go over? 24 A She asked me several, 10, 12 questions. 25 Q About what? 8 1 A About me personally, where I -- well, where I 2 live. 3 Q Okay. Where do you live? 4 A 801 West Whitestone Street in Bloomington 47403. 5 That's south of town. 6 Q Do you know which annexation area that is in? 7 A Which what, sir? 8 Q Annexation area. 9 A Clear Creek Estates -- oh, 1B. Excuse me. 10 Q Okay. Thank you. 11 How long have you lived there? 12 A Since May of, I believe, 2006. Wait a minute. 13 I think it was May of 2005 or 2006. 16 years, 14 it's been 16 years. I think maybe this will be 15 17. 16 Q Where did you live prior to that? 17 A West side of town, out right near where -- right 18 in back of what is now Rural King, was Walmart 19 then. 20 Q Have you lived in the Bloomington community your 21 entire life? 22 A No. I was raised in Lafayette. I went to IU, 23 Indiana University, '60 to '64. And then I was 24 in Crawfordsville for a year and a half. And 25 then I've been in Bloomington since January of 9 1 1966. 2 Q Are you retired now? 3 A Yes. 4 Q We had talked about this a little bit earlier 5 off the record, but for the record, what did you 6 do for your career? 7 A I was a sportswriter for the Bloomington 8 newspapers and the Crawfordsville Journal 9 Review. 10 Q I believe off the record you said you covered 11 local high school sports; is that correct? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Do you live alone in your home? 14 A No. I'm married. 15 Q Any plans to move? 16 A I would like to go to Florida, but my wife 17 doesn't want to go because the girls are up 18 here. 19 Q So currently no intent to -- 20 A No. 21 Q -- move to Florida? 22 A None. 23 Q Did you sign a remonstrance petition against 24 annexation? 25 A Yes. I also carried petitions around 1B. If 10 1 we'd had had one more weekend, we'd have got 2 enough signatures, we could have avoided all 3 this. We were that close. 4 Q So I assume you are opposed to annexation by the 5 City? 6 A Yes. 7 Q I'm going to ask you very broadly. Can you tell 8 me why you were opposed? 9 A I am retired, I'm on a fixed income. I don't 10 need any more expenses. I'm -- my bills are 11 paid and I'm eating, but we got to watch what we 12 do. 13 And the taxes -- I saw a sheet not too long 14 ago, probably a year ago, my taxes will go up at 15 least $1,000. That was a couple of years ago. 16 And I would assume that now it would be another 17 $100 or $200 right away. I don't need any more 18 expenses. No, huh-uh. We're living okay, but 19 we would -- I would get down to not having any 20 cash in my wallet. 21 I have a part-time job now. I'm 81 years 22 old and I still have a part-time job now just so 23 I'll have some walking-around cash. I used to 24 say it was for -- well, some of it is to pay 25 Medicare supplement insurance. You guys, when 11 1 get older, you'll find out that doesn't go down, 2 that keeps going up pretty quick, so that's a 3 big expense. 4 And then I also said some of my income from 5 that part-time job was to play golf. But I got 6 old and my back doesn't want me to play golf 7 anymore, so ... 8 Q Are there any other reasons you're opposed 9 besides -- and I'll touch on -- 10 A I don't want to be under the jurisdiction of the 11 city council, all the Democrats. That's a big 12 one. I don't want -- I don't need to be 13 governed by those people. 14 Also the taxes will go up, and I'm not 15 going to get anything for it. I won't be 16 having -- I'll be paying for nothing. 17 Q I'll ask you some more detailed questions about 18 some of these, but is there anything else you 19 can think of right now? 20 A Not right now. 21 Q Your home, do you have a mortgage? 22 A No, sir. It's paid. 23 Q You pay your property taxes directly? 24 A I just take them down to the second floor of 25 auditor's office and pay a check right there. 12 1 Q Do you do that once a year or twice a year? 2 A I do it once. 3 Q You pay it when the first bill is due -- 4 A Yes. 5 Q -- in the fall? 6 A Yeah. I take my tax refund from the federal 7 government from the right hand and I go and give 8 it to the left hand. Just goes pretty quick. 9 And the rest of it goes for homeowners 10 insurance, another -- another item which keeps 11 rising rather rapidly. 12 Q Do you know what your property taxes were in 13 2023? 14 A About 1800. That's total, that's total, both 15 payments. 16 Q Do you have an understanding of what your 17 property taxes would increase to after 18 annexation? 19 A Like I say, about a year, year and a half ago, I 20 saw some figures. And I also went down and 21 talked to the, I think it's the auditor's 22 office, and they were going to go up a thousand. 23 That was a year ago. It would be more now. 24 Q So again, your understanding is you think your 25 property taxes will go up more than $1,000 -- 13 1 A They will -- 2 Q I'm sorry, let me finish my question, then 3 answer it. 4 Your understanding is they will go up more 5 than $1,000 after annexation; is that correct? 6 A Yes. 7 Q You mentioned that you saw a sheet. Where did 8 you see that sheet? 9 A I don't recall. 10 Q Was it something you received in the mail? 11 A It was -- it showed the tax increase, not only 12 just me. It showed the tax increase of a lot of 13 1B people. I can't remember where I -- where I 14 got it from. It was one of the officials who 15 knows what they would be. 16 Q Do you know who prepared that? 17 A No, sir, I don't. It came -- it came from the 18 City. But like I say, I also went down and 19 talked to the workers there in the city, and 20 they -- she explained to me what it would be. 21 Q In the city or in the county? You said you went 22 and talked to the workers in the city. 23 A The auditor, that's county; right? 24 Q Yes. 25 A Yeah, okay. 14 1 Q So when you say you went and talked to the 2 workers, you mean in the County auditor's 3 office? 4 A Yes, yes, sir. 5 Q Okay. Is there anything else you've reviewed to 6 rely on the property tax increases from 7 annexation? 8 A I don't quite understand. Is there what, sir? 9 Q Is there anything else you relied on for your 10 understanding of what your increases will be as 11 a result of annexation? 12 A No. 13 Q You mentioned that you had a part-time job 14 currently. Where is that? 15 A Yes. I drive cars for by Byrider. They get 16 cars at -- most of their cars they get at 17 auctions, and me and several other old guys go 18 pick them up and bring them back here, and they 19 recondition them and then put them out on the 20 sales lot. Not all of the cars are auctioned, 21 some of them are from vendors. We get them in 22 Terre Haute, Jeffersonville, Kentucky, 23 New Palestine, Indianapolis, Ferdinand, places 24 around here. That's right now; that varies. We 25 get them in Jasonville sometimes. 15 1 Q Where is the Byrider located? 2 A West Third Street. It's not a boring job. 3 Sometimes those cars will get back, sometimes 4 they won't. Sometimes an air conditioner works, 5 sometimes it doesn't. No, they're old -- 6 they're junk. But they have a good 7 reconditioning program there. 8 Q You also mentioned that you don't want to be 9 governed by Democrats in the City; is that 10 correct? 11 A Yeah. Well, the City. They just happen to be 12 all Democrats, and I don't like some of the 13 stuff they've done. I don't like some of the 14 stuff -- the way they've operated. I don't like 15 the way we found out about annexation, and I 16 think that kind of got -- you've got to go to 17 the meetings, the city council meeting and stuff 18 to find out what's going on. 19 And it doesn't help -- you don't -- 20 anymore, you don't find out about what's going 21 on in the city council because the newspaper 22 doesn't publish all the stuff anymore. We used 23 to cover everything very well. That doesn't 24 happen now. And so you don't -- a lot of us had 25 no idea of what was going on. 16 1 Q Any other specific examples that you can give 2 about -- you said you don't like how the City 3 operates. Is there anything else in particular? 4 A Well, that's the main thing right there. 5 They'll build buildings for people to -- 6 homeless people, stuff like that, and they've 7 built a couple and they want to build some more. 8 And a friend of mine, he said, "You can't 9 believe it. You go in those buildings and 10 they're trashed, they're all trashed." Well, 11 why are we spending tax money and letting that 12 happen? You know, that doesn't -- is not a good 13 use of tax money. 14 Q Anything else? 15 A None that I can think of right at the moment. 16 Q Did you build your home? 17 A No, no. I moved in it when it was ten years 18 old. My wife's knees went bad and we had to get 19 out of a trilevel house. We needed a ranch, and 20 we were very fortunate we found this place and 21 it was for sale, and we ended up -- there was a 22 whole bunch -- they had about three people 23 waiting to buy that house. The guy I talked to, 24 he said, "I'll give you till 6:00 to get the 25 money." And I was fortunate, my credit was 17 1 good, so I got the money. 2 Q That was kind of a hot market time, if I recall, 3 2005, 2006, was -- 4 A It's a hot market because there's a lot of old 5 people looking for ranch houses, one-level 6 houses. I could sell that house right now for 7 more than twice what I paid for it. It would 8 buy a nice house in Bradenton where it's warm in 9 the winter. 10 Q If your wife would just let you do that; right? 11 A I'm not going anywhere. 12 Q Do you receive city sewer and water service at 13 your house? 14 A Yes. That was there. That was part of -- that 15 was in the deed. Of course, I didn't know 16 anything about that when I bought the house, you 17 know, the restrictions. I was just glad to get 18 a house where my wife could get in and out of 19 the front door. 20 (Deposition Exhibit 28 previously marked 21 for identification.) 22 Q So in front of you there's a document that's 23 listed Exhibit 28. I'll let you put your 24 glasses on. It's titled "Amended and 25 Supplemented Answers of County Residents Against 18 1 Annexation to City of Bloomington's 2 Interrogatories." 3 Do you see that? 4 A This? 5 Q Yes. 6 A Yes. 7 Q I'm going to assume you've never seen this 8 before; is that correct? 9 A No, huh-uh. 10 Q I'm going to ask you to turn to page 11. 11 A Yes. 12 Q And these are written responses, so you know 13 that the remonstrators -- or County Residents 14 Against Annexation gave us in response to 15 written questions that we asked them. 16 So you'll see on page 11, Number 12, it 17 says, "Identify and list all facts and documents 18 supporting your contention in the petition that 19 the annexation will have a significant financial 20 impact on the residents and/or owners of land in 21 the annexation territory, and identify each 22 witness you intend to call to testify in support 23 of your contention." 24 And then if you go to the next page, 25 page 12, and if you look at the supplemental 19 1 answer, it says, "If called to testify, the 2 following individuals may be asked to testify 3 about the significant economic impacts of 4 annexation upon Areas 1A and 1B." Then if you 5 look on the second line almost all the way to 6 the end, it has your name. 7 Do you see that? 8 A Sure. 9 Q We've talked a little bit today about the 10 financial impact to you already. Besides what 11 we have talked about already, is there anything 12 else you can tell me about the significant 13 economic impacts of annexation on Area 1A or 1B? 14 A I don't know for sure, but I don't think it's 15 significant, but do we have to pay for trash 16 pickup? I just put mine in an orange bag and 17 take it down to Dillman Road right now. Of 18 course you have to pay for those orange bags, 19 but I don't think that's a huge expense, is it, 20 trash pickup? I'm not sure. But we have to pay 21 it. I don't know -- you know, I've been told we 22 have to. 23 Q Where do you buy the orange bags? 24 A Kroger's. 25 Q Do you know what it costs a bag? 20 1 A Sure. The small bags, you get, I think, about 2 15, and I think it's 12 1/2 dollars. The big 3 ones, they're different. There's small bags and 4 big bags. 5 I remember once I asked Jerry Bales, who 6 was a state representative at the time, I said, 7 "Jerry, we have to pay sales tax on those orange 8 bags. We shouldn't have to pay tax on those 9 orange bags. They are a tax." 10 So he went to somebody in the legislature, 11 he tried to get that taken care of so we didn't 12 have to pay that double tax, but it didn't swim. 13 Q So you buy the bags and you personally take them 14 to a drop-off location? 15 A Yes, Dillman Road. Well, I'm close to Dillman 16 Road. I think there's like four in the county. 17 Q Do you know, are you limited to how many bags 18 you can take to the drop-off location? 19 A No. 20 Q Any other economic impacts you're aware of 21 besides what we've talked about already? 22 A Would the county tax go up? Property taxes will 23 go up, how about that? Are we subject to any 24 other tax that we are not now subject to? I 25 don't know. I don't think so, but ... 21 1 MS. CLEMENTS: I can't enter into it. 2 Q Besides the sheet that you received that had the 3 property tax estimate we talked about, are you 4 aware of any other property tax increases or 5 believe there will be other property tax 6 increases in addition to that? 7 A Probably, 'cause of inflation, your home goes 8 up. When your home goes up, your property taxes 9 go up. I mean, that's -- at the rate of 10 inflation right now, that could turn out to be 11 significant. 12 Q Any other economic impacts you're aware of? 13 A Not that I'm aware of, sir. You mean 14 personally? 15 Q Correct. 16 A Personally, not that I'm aware of. There will 17 be economic differences between fire and police 18 protection and stuff like that, but that -- I 19 don't know all the details of that. 20 Q What are those economic differences of police 21 and fire? What do you understand them to be? 22 A It's been a while since I've -- I have read 23 that, but I don't know all the differences. 24 Q Anything else? 25 A No, sir. 22 1 Q Is there any other reason that you're opposed to 2 annexation beside the matters we've already 3 discussed? 4 A Not that I can think of right at the moment. 5 MR. UNGER: I have no other questions at 6 this time. 7 MR. BEGGS: Rex, you're done. 8 (Time noted: 12:18 p.m.) 9 AND FURTHER THE DEPONENT SAITH NOT. 10 11 12 ____________________ 13 REX KIRTS 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 23 1 STATE OF INDIANA ) ) SS: 2 COUNTY OF HAMILTON ) 3 I, Janine A. Ferren, a Notary Public in and 4 for the County of Hamilton, State of Indiana at 5 large, do hereby certify that REX KIRTS, the 6 deponent herein, was by me first duly sworn to tell 7 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 8 truth in the aforementioned matter; 9 That the foregoing deposition was taken on 10 behalf of the Respondents, at the offices of 11 Bloomington City Hall, 401 North Morton Street, 12 Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, on the 1st day 13 of March 2024, commencing at the hour of 14 11:55 a.m., pursuant to the Indiana Rules of Trial 15 Procedure; 16 That said deposition was taken down 17 stenographically and transcribed under my 18 direction, and that the typewritten transcript is a 19 true record of the testimony given by the said 20 deponent; and thereafter presented to said deponent 21 for his signature; 22 That the parties were represented by their 23 counsel as aforementioned. 24 I do further certify that I am a disinterested 25 person in this cause of action; that I am not a 24 1 relative or attorney of any party, or otherwise 2 interested in the event of this action, and am not 3 in the employ of the attorneys for any party. 4 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my 5 hand and affixed my notarial seal on this 15th 6 day of March 2024. 7 8 9 <%21167,Signature%> ________________ 10 Janine A. Ferren 11 12 Seal, Notary Public My Commission Expires: 13 State of Indiana April 22, 2024 14 Janine A. Ferren County of Residence: Commission No. NP0681591 Hamilton 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Veritext Legal Solutions 1100 Superior Ave Suite 1820 Cleveland, Ohio 44114 Phone: 216-523-1313 March 15, 2024 To: William J. Beggs, Esq. Case Name: County Residents Against Annexation, Inc., Et Al. v. The Common Council Of The City Of Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, Et Al. Veritext Reference Number: 6465811 Witness: Rex Kirts Deposition Date: 3/1/2024 Dear Sir/Madam: The deposition transcript taken in the above-referenced matter, with the reading and signing having not been expressly waived, has been completed and is available for review and signature. Please call our office to make arrangements for a convenient location to accomplish this or if you prefer a certified transcript can be purchased. If the errata is not returned within thirty days of your receipt of this letter, the reading and signing will be deemed waived. Sincerely, Production Department NO NOTARY REQUIRED IN CA 1 DEPOSITION REVIEW CERTIFICATION OF WITNESS 2 ASSIGNMENT REFERENCE NO: 6465811 3 CASE NAME: County Residents Against Annexation, Inc., Et Al. v. The Common Council Of The City Of Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, Et Al. DATE OF DEPOSITION: 3/1/2024 4 WITNESS' NAME: Rex Kirts 5 In accordance with the Rules of Civil Procedure, I have read the entire transcript of 6 my testimony or it has been read to me. 7 I have made no changes to the testimony as transcribed by the court reporter. 8 _______________ ________________________ 9 Date Rex Kirts 10 Sworn to and subscribed before me, a Notary Public in and for the State and County, 11 the referenced witness did personally appear and acknowledge that: 12 They have read the transcript; 13 They signed the foregoing Sworn Statement; and 14 Their execution of this Statement is of their free act and deed. 15 I have affixed my name and official seal 16 this ______ day of_____________________, 20____. 17 ___________________________________ 18 Notary Public 19 ___________________________________ Commission Expiration Date 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 DEPOSITION REVIEW CERTIFICATION OF WITNESS 2 ASSIGNMENT REFERENCE NO: 6465811 3 CASE NAME: County Residents Against Annexation, Inc., Et Al. v. The Common Council Of The City Of Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, Et Al. DATE OF DEPOSITION: 3/1/2024 4 WITNESS' NAME: Rex Kirts 5 In accordance with the Rules of Civil Procedure, I have read the entire transcript of 6 my testimony or it has been read to me. 7 I have listed my changes on the attached Errata Sheet, listing page and line numbers as 8 well as the reason(s) for the change(s). 9 I request that these changes be entered as part of the record of my testimony. 10 I have executed the Errata Sheet, as well 11 as this Certificate, and request and authorize that both be appended to the transcript of my 12 testimony and be incorporated therein. 13 _______________ ________________________ Date Rex Kirts 14 Sworn to and subscribed before me, a 15 Notary Public in and for the State and County, the referenced witness did personally appear 16 and acknowledge that: 17 They have read the transcript; They have listed all of their corrections 18 in the appended Errata Sheet; They signed the foregoing Sworn 19 Statement; and Their execution of this Statement is of 20 their free act and deed. 21 I have affixed my name and official seal 22 this ______ day of_____________________, 20____. 23 ___________________________________ Notary Public 24 ___________________________________ 25 Commission Expiration Date 1 ERRATA SHEET VERITEXT LEGAL SOLUTIONS MIDWEST 2 ASSIGNMENT NO: 3/1/2024 3 PAGE/LINE(S) / CHANGE /REASON 4 ___________________________________________________ 5 ___________________________________________________ 6 ___________________________________________________ 7 ___________________________________________________ 8 ___________________________________________________ 9 ___________________________________________________ 10 ___________________________________________________ 11 ___________________________________________________ 12 ___________________________________________________ 13 ___________________________________________________ 14 ___________________________________________________ 15 ___________________________________________________ 16 ___________________________________________________ 17 ___________________________________________________ 18 ___________________________________________________ 19 _______________ ________________________ 20 Date Rex Kirts 21 SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO BEFORE ME THIS ________ 22 DAY OF ________________________, 20______ . 23 ___________________________________ Notary Public 24 ___________________________________ 25 Commission Expiration Date