1 STATE OF INDIANA ) ) SS: 2 COUNTY OF MONROE ) 3 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF MONROE COUNTY 4 CAUSE NO. 53C06-2203-PL-000509 5 6 COUNTY RESIDENTS AGAINST ANNEXATION, ) INC., an Indiana not for profit ) 7 corporation, et al., ) ) 8 Remonstrators/Appellants/Petitioners, ) ) 9 -vs- ) ) 10 THE COMMON COUNCIL of the City of ) Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, ) 11 et al., ) ) 12 Respondents. ) 13 14 DEPOSITION OF RICHARD NISBET 15 16 The deposition upon oral examination of RICHARD NISBET, a witness produced and sworn before 17 me, Janine A. Ferren, RMR, CRR, CSR-IL No. 84-4852, Notary Public in and for the County of Hamilton, 18 State of Indiana, taken on behalf of the Respondents, at the offices of Bloomington City 19 Hall, 401 North Morton Street, Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, on the 1st day of March 2024, 20 scheduled to commence at 2:00 p.m., pursuant to the Indiana Rules of Trial Procedure with written 21 notice as to time and place thereof. 22 23 24 25 2 1 APPEARANCES 2 FOR THE REMONSTRATORS/APPELLANTS/PETITIONERS: 3 William J. Beggs BUNGER & ROBERTSON 4 211 South College Avenue Bloomington, IN 47404 5 812.332.9295 wjbeggs@lawbr.com 6 7 FOR THE RESPONDENTS: 8 Andrew M. McNeil 9 Stephen C. Unger BOSE McKINNEY & EVANS LLP 10 111 Monument Circle Suite 2700 11 Indianapolis, IN 46204 317.684.5000 12 amcneil@boselaw.com sunger@boselaw.com 13 14 ALSO PRESENT: 15 Margaret Clements 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 INDEX OF EXAMINATION 2 Page 3 DIRECT EXAMINATION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5 Questions by Andrew M. McNeil 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 INDEX OF EXHIBITS 2 Previously Marked Exhibits: Page 3 Exhibit 28 - Amended and Supplemented 14 Answers of County Residents 4 Against Annexation, Inc. to City of Bloomington's 5 Interrogatories 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 (Time noted: 2:06 p.m.) 2 RICHARD NISBET, 3 having been duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole 4 truth, and nothing but the truth relating to said 5 matter, was examined and testified as follows: 6 7 DIRECT EXAMINATION, 8 QUESTIONS BY ANDREW M. McNEIL: 9 Q Please state your name for the record. 10 A Richard Nisbet. 11 Q Mr. Nisbet, my name is Andrew McNeil. I'm one 12 of the attorneys for the City of Bloomington in 13 the annexation remonstrance case. 14 Have you ever had the opportunity to 15 provide testimony by way of deposition before? 16 A No. 17 Q So the process is pretty simple. I'm going to 18 ask you a series of questions, and your job is 19 to answer them as completely and as truthfully 20 as you can. Does that make sense? 21 A Yes. 22 Q If you don't understand my question, will you 23 let me know? 24 A Yes. 25 Q If you need me to rephrase something or don't 6 1 hear my question, will you let me know that? 2 A Yes. 3 Q We're running through these in about 30-minute 4 cycles, but if you need to take a break for any 5 reason at all, will you let us know? 6 A Sure. 7 Q What is your address? 8 A 2902 South Yonkers Street, Bloomington 47403. 9 Q Is that in Annexation Area 1B? 10 A Yes, it is. 11 Q How long have you lived there? 12 A Twenty-three years. 13 Q Does anyone live at that address with you? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Who lives there with you? 16 A Currently my wife, my grandson, and one of my 17 daughters. 18 Q Do you own any other real estate in Annexation 19 Area 1A or 1B? 20 A No. 21 Q Do you have any plans to move? 22 A No. 23 Q I heard you say before we went on the record 24 that you're working as an electrician? 25 A Yeah. 7 1 Q Where do you work? 2 A Alexander Electric. 3 Q Are you unretired at the moment? 4 A Yes. 5 Q So when did you go back to work at Alexander 6 Electric? 7 A I went back part time two years ago and now I'm 8 back full time. 9 Q When you retired, were you working at Alexander 10 Electric? 11 A Yes. 12 Q Are you buying your home or do you rent? 13 A Buying. 14 Q Do you know if you have the homestead property 15 tax exemption filed on your property? 16 A I do not know that. 17 Q Did you or someone in your household sign a 18 remonstrance petition opposing the annexation? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Did you sign it? 21 A Yes. 22 Q When you signed it, did you understand that you 23 were expressing official opposition to the 24 annexation? 25 A Yes. 8 1 Q Are you still opposed to the annexation? 2 A Yes. 3 Q I'm going to ask a very broad question and then 4 we can follow up as needed on your answer. But 5 the question generally is, please tell us the 6 reasons, all the reasons why you're opposed to 7 the annexation. 8 A First of all, my taxes are going to go up. I 9 don't think I'm going to get anything for that 10 tax money that I don't already get from the 11 County. 12 The County just repaved our roads three 13 years ago, so our roads are in very good shape. 14 I drive around the city, and the city roads are 15 in terrible shape. 16 I don't need trash collection from the 17 City. I currently haul off my own trash. 18 I don't think -- I don't think police 19 coverage is a factor because, from my 20 understanding, the police department is way down 21 in their number of officers in the City of 22 Bloomington now. I don't know how they could 23 handle any additional area. 24 We have fire protection from the fire 25 district, and I don't believe that will change 9 1 if the City annexes that property. 2 Q Any other reasons come to mind for why you 3 oppose the annexation? 4 A Just financial. 5 Q Financial. And when you say "financial," are 6 you referring specifically to the property tax 7 issue? 8 A Yes. 9 Q What is your understanding, if any, on the 10 impact the annexation would have on your 11 property taxes? Besides increasing them, do you 12 have any specific understanding? 13 A No, I don't have any specifics. 14 Q Have you ever looked at a property tax 15 calculator either through the City of 16 Bloomington, the County, or the state to -- 17 A No. 18 Q Are you aware of any other -- so you've 19 identified property taxes. You mentioned waste 20 hauling that you don't need. Do you understand 21 that if the annexation goes forward, the City of 22 Bloomington would take over the waste removal? 23 A At a fee. 24 Q At a fee, right. 25 Do you have City of Bloomington utility 10 1 service for water and sewer? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Do you understand that if the annexation goes 4 forward, your water and sewer bill would go 5 down? 6 A Until they add the trash hauling. 7 Q Right. But just for the sewer and water 8 service, do you understand that the fee for 9 those services outside of the trash hauling 10 would go down, stay the same, or increase? 11 A I think it would go down. 12 Q Because you would be an in-city user? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Subject to whatever the additional trash fee is? 15 A Correct. 16 Q Other than the property tax impact and a 17 potential impact from the waste hauling fee 18 after the utility bill gets sorted out, are you 19 aware of any other financial impacts the 20 annexation would have on you or your household? 21 A No. 22 Q You say the County repaved Yonkers about three 23 years ago? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Your perspective on the city streets, as you 11 1 described, is that just your general observation 2 from someone who drives through the city? 3 A Yes. Well, when I get out of my neighborhood -- 4 when I get out of the streets that the County 5 just repaved, the city streets that are adjacent 6 are in terrible shape. 7 Q Where is Alexander Electric located? 8 A Alexander Electric is 5970 West State Road 48. 9 Q How do you get there from your house? 10 A I generally take Highway 45 to Airport Road to 11 Kirby Road, and Kirby Road runs right into 12 Alexander Electric. 13 Q As an electrician for Alexander Electric, are 14 you a residential, or is it new construction, 15 commercial? What kind of jobs are you doing? 16 A Commercial and light industrial. 17 Q You mentioned in your answer that the police 18 department is down in the number of officers. 19 What is that understanding based on? 20 A A 2020 report that was given to the City. You 21 want the name of the report? 22 Q The Novac Consulting Group? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Do you have notes in your pocket? 25 A I have a phone in my pocket. 12 1 Q Do you have a copy of the report on your phone? 2 A Uh-huh. 3 Q Where did you get that? 4 A Online. 5 Q Have you read it? 6 A I've read parts of it, yes. 7 Q I'm just curious. Most people we've talked to 8 haven't actually seen that report. What is it 9 about that report that caught your attention? 10 A There is a graph showing the number of officers 11 that were on duty at that time from, I think it 12 was from 2:00 in the afternoon until 9 or 10:00 13 at night. They only had half the officers on 14 duty that this report said they should have. 15 Q So how did the report come to your attention in 16 the first place? Through news reports or -- 17 A I have heard rumors that the City of 18 Bloomington's police department was 19 understaffed, so I started researching. 20 Q And in this Novac Consulting Group report with 21 the graph or the table showing the staffing 22 levels from 2 to 9, there were many other graphs 23 and tables in the report? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Do you remember the graphs and tables that 13 1 showed how they could rearrange the scheduling 2 to improve staffing at peak times? 3 A I did see some of that, but that wasn't what I 4 was looking for at the time. 5 Q What were you specifically looking for? 6 A I was looking to see if, at the time, the police 7 department was understaffed. 8 Q And in the table you looked at, do you remember 9 if it was a schedule of six 10 eight-and-a-half-hour days followed by three 11 days off? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Have you seen any similar data on staffing 14 levels for the Monroe County Sheriff's 15 Department? 16 A No. I wasn't aware there was such a report. 17 Q I don't know if there is one or not. I'm just 18 wondering in your research whether you've seen 19 any information, whether a report or news 20 articles or anything. 21 A No. 22 Q Mr. Nisbet, do you know what your property taxes 23 were for 2023? 24 A I don't recall that offhand. 25 Q Do you pay the property taxes directly or do 14 1 they get paid through escrow? 2 A Through an escrow account. 3 Q Do you recall over each year getting letters 4 from the auditor or the -- 5 A Yes. 6 Q -- County assessor talking about your assessed 7 value? 8 A Yes. 9 Q Have your property taxes increased in the last, 10 say, over the course of the last five years? 11 A Yes. 12 Q Has that been driven by an increase in the 13 assessed value? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Have you ever tried to appeal your property tax 16 assessment? 17 A No. 18 (Deposition Exhibit 28 previously marked 19 for identification.) 20 Q The document in front of you has a Number 28 on 21 it, Exhibit 28. 22 A Yes. 23 Q Those are the answers -- amended and 24 supplemented answers of County Residents Against 25 Annexation to City of Bloomington's 15 1 interrogatories. 2 If you would turn to, I believe it's 3 page 12, it's question 13. The question asked 4 the responder to "Identify and list all facts 5 and documents supporting a contention that the 6 annexation is not in the best interest of owners 7 of land in the annexation territory," and 8 identify the witnesses. 9 Do you see that? 10 A Yes. 11 Q If you turn the page to page 13, do you see in 12 the supplemental answer section it says, "See 13 Supplemental Answer Number 5. In addition, if 14 called to testify, the following would be asked 15 to testify about the impact of annexation upon 16 them or upon their businesses," and then it's 17 the third line from the bottom of that paragraph 18 that starts, "Jacomina Smith." If you go over, 19 do you see your name there? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Is there anything else that you would say or 22 testify to with respect to -- that you haven't 23 already, with respect to whether the annexation 24 is in the best interest of the owners of land in 25 the annexation territory? 16 1 A No, I don't think so. 2 MR. McNEIL: I have no further questions. 3 MR. BEGGS: No questions. Thank you very 4 much. 5 (Time noted: 2:22 p.m.) 6 AND FURTHER THE DEPONENT SAITH NOT. 7 8 9 ____________________ 10 RICHARD NISBET 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 17 1 STATE OF INDIANA ) ) SS: 2 COUNTY OF HAMILTON ) 3 I, Janine A. Ferren, a Notary Public in and 4 for the County of Hamilton, State of Indiana at 5 large, do hereby certify that RICHARD NISBET, the 6 deponent herein, was by me first duly sworn to tell 7 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 8 truth in the aforementioned matter; 9 That the foregoing deposition was taken on 10 behalf of the Respondents, at the offices of 11 Bloomington City Hall, 401 North Morton Street, 12 Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, on the 1st day 13 of March 2024, commencing at the hour of 2:06 p.m., 14 pursuant to the Indiana Rules of Trial Procedure; 15 That said deposition was taken down 16 stenographically and transcribed under my 17 direction, and that the typewritten transcript is a 18 true record of the testimony given by the said 19 deponent; and thereafter presented to said deponent 20 for his signature; 21 That the parties were represented by their 22 counsel as aforementioned. 23 I do further certify that I am a disinterested 24 person in this cause of action; that I am not a 25 relative or attorney of any party, or otherwise 18 1 interested in the event of this action, and am not 2 in the employ of the attorneys for any party. 3 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my 4 hand and affixed my notarial seal on this 15th 5 day of March 2024. 6 7 8 <%21167,Signature%> ________________ 9 Janine A. Ferren 10 11 Seal, Notary Public My Commission Expires: 12 State of Indiana April 22, 2024 13 Janine A. Ferren County of Residence: Commission No. NP0681591 Hamilton 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Veritext Legal Solutions 1100 Superior Ave Suite 1820 Cleveland, Ohio 44114 Phone: 216-523-1313 March 15, 2024 To: William J. Beggs, Esq. Case Name: County Residents Against Annexation, Inc., Et Al. v. The Common Council Of The City Of Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, Et Al. Veritext Reference Number: 6465811 Witness: Richard Nisbet Deposition Date: 3/1/2024 Dear Sir/Madam: The deposition transcript taken in the above-referenced matter, with the reading and signing having not been expressly waived, has been completed and is available for review and signature. Please call our office to make arrangements for a convenient location to accomplish this or if you prefer a certified transcript can be purchased. If the errata is not returned within thirty days of your receipt of this letter, the reading and signing will be deemed waived. Sincerely, Production Department NO NOTARY REQUIRED IN CA 1 DEPOSITION REVIEW CERTIFICATION OF WITNESS 2 ASSIGNMENT REFERENCE NO: 6465811 3 CASE NAME: County Residents Against Annexation, Inc., Et Al. v. The Common Council Of The City Of Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, Et Al. DATE OF DEPOSITION: 3/1/2024 4 WITNESS' NAME: Richard Nisbet 5 In accordance with the Rules of Civil Procedure, I have read the entire transcript of 6 my testimony or it has been read to me. 7 I have made no changes to the testimony as transcribed by the court reporter. 8 _______________ ________________________ 9 Date Richard Nisbet 10 Sworn to and subscribed before me, a Notary Public in and for the State and County, 11 the referenced witness did personally appear and acknowledge that: 12 They have read the transcript; 13 They signed the foregoing Sworn Statement; and 14 Their execution of this Statement is of their free act and deed. 15 I have affixed my name and official seal 16 this ______ day of_____________________, 20____. 17 ___________________________________ 18 Notary Public 19 ___________________________________ Commission Expiration Date 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 DEPOSITION REVIEW CERTIFICATION OF WITNESS 2 ASSIGNMENT REFERENCE NO: 6465811 3 CASE NAME: County Residents Against Annexation, Inc., Et Al. v. The Common Council Of The City Of Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, Et Al. DATE OF DEPOSITION: 3/1/2024 4 WITNESS' NAME: Richard Nisbet 5 In accordance with the Rules of Civil Procedure, I have read the entire transcript of 6 my testimony or it has been read to me. 7 I have listed my changes on the attached Errata Sheet, listing page and line numbers as 8 well as the reason(s) for the change(s). 9 I request that these changes be entered as part of the record of my testimony. 10 I have executed the Errata Sheet, as well 11 as this Certificate, and request and authorize that both be appended to the transcript of my 12 testimony and be incorporated therein. 13 _______________ ________________________ Date Richard Nisbet 14 Sworn to and subscribed before me, a 15 Notary Public in and for the State and County, the referenced witness did personally appear 16 and acknowledge that: 17 They have read the transcript; They have listed all of their corrections 18 in the appended Errata Sheet; They signed the foregoing Sworn 19 Statement; and Their execution of this Statement is of 20 their free act and deed. 21 I have affixed my name and official seal 22 this ______ day of_____________________, 20____. 23 ___________________________________ Notary Public 24 ___________________________________ 25 Commission Expiration Date 1 ERRATA SHEET VERITEXT LEGAL SOLUTIONS MIDWEST 2 ASSIGNMENT NO: 3/1/2024 3 PAGE/LINE(S) / CHANGE /REASON 4 ___________________________________________________ 5 ___________________________________________________ 6 ___________________________________________________ 7 ___________________________________________________ 8 ___________________________________________________ 9 ___________________________________________________ 10 ___________________________________________________ 11 ___________________________________________________ 12 ___________________________________________________ 13 ___________________________________________________ 14 ___________________________________________________ 15 ___________________________________________________ 16 ___________________________________________________ 17 ___________________________________________________ 18 ___________________________________________________ 19 _______________ ________________________ 20 Date Richard Nisbet 21 SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO BEFORE ME THIS ________ 22 DAY OF ________________________, 20______ . 23 ___________________________________ Notary Public 24 ___________________________________ 25 Commission Expiration Date