1 1 STATE OF INDIANA 2 COUNTY OF MONROE 3 IN THE MONROE CIRCUIT COURT 4 ________________________________ 5 COUNTY RESIDENTS AGAINST 6 ANNEXATION, INC., an Indiana 7 not for profit Corporation, 8 Representative of Those in the 9 Territories Sought to be 10 Annexed; DON CREEK, HARRY 11 FERRIS, WILLIAM MAN WARING, 12 DAN DOYLE, CATHERINE DENSFORD, 13 ETHEL ANN SATLER, MARILYN J. 14 DANIELSON, DEAN F. HOKE, BERT 15 F. PHILLIPS, SUNNY SLATER, 16 HOLLY HILL, DEBORAH REED for 17 REED QUARRIES, INC., 18 THOMAS W. McGHIE, RICKY 19 FERGUSON, THOMAS E. OSBORN, 20 JIMMIE JOHNSON, RICHARD PEACH, 21 KAREN LAUCELLA, BARBARA 22 LEININGER, RHONDA GRAY, 23 ARLLYS PAPKE, JOANNA HAHN; 24 and OTHER TERRITORY 1A AND 25 I OWNERS OF LAND, 2 1 Petitioners, 2 v. Cause No. 3 THE COMMON COUNCIL of the City 53C06-2203-PL- 4 of Bloomington, Monroe County, 000509 5 Indiana, JOHN HAMILTON in his 6 Official Capacity as Mayor 7 of Bloomington, Monroe County, 8 Indiana, and CATHERINE SMITH in 9 Her Official Capacity as 10 Auditor of Monroe County, 11 Indiana, 12 Respondents. 13 ________________________________ 14 DEPOSITION OF 15 RITA BARROW 16 DATE: Thursday, March 14, 2024 17 TIME: 10:36 a.m. 18 LOCATION: Bloomington City Hall 19 401 North Morton Street 20 Bloomington, IN 47404 21 REPORTED BY: Andrew Pronschinske 22 JOB NO.: 6485975 23 24 25 3 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 ON BEHALF OF PETITIONERS COUNTY RESIDENTS AGAINST 3 ANNEXATION, INC., DON CREEK, HARRY FERRIS, WILLIAM MAN 4 WARING, DAN DOYLE, CATHERINE DENSFORD, ETHEL ANN 5 SATLER, MARILYN J. DANIELSON, DEAN F. HOKE, BERT F. 6 PHILLIPS, SUNNY SLATER, HOLLY HILL, DEBORAH REED for 7 REED QUARRIES, INC., THOMAS W. McGHIE, RICKY FERGUSON, 8 THOMAS E. OSBORN, JIMMIE JOHNSON, RICHARD PEACH, KAREN 9 LAUCELLA, BARBARA LEININGER, RHONDA GRAY, ARLLYS 10 PAPKE, JOANNA HAHN; and OTHER TERRITORY 1A AND I 11 OWNERS OF LAND: 12 RYAN HEEB, ESQUIRE 13 Bunger & Robertson 14 211 South College Avenue 15 Bloomington, IN 47404 16 rheeb@lawbr.com 17 (317) 296-5294 18 19 ON BEHALF OF RESPONDENTS CITY OF BLOOMINGTON, INDIANA: 20 STEPHEN C. UNGER, ESQUIRE 21 Bose McKinney & Evans LLP 22 111 Monument Circle, Suite 2700 23 Indianapolis, IN 46204 24 sunger@boselaw.com 25 (317) 684-5435 4 1 A P P E A R A N C E S (Cont'd)` 2 ON BEHALF OF RESPONDENTS CITY OF BLOOMINGTON, INDIANA: 3 ANDREW M. MCNEIL, ESQUIRE 4 Bose McKinney & Evans LLP 5 111 Monument Circle, Suite 2700 6 Indianapolis, IN 46204 7 amcneil@boselaw.com 8 (317) 684-5253 9 10 ALSO PRESENT: 11 Margaret Clements, County Residents against 12 Annexation, Inc., Corporate representative 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 I N D E X 2 EXAMINATION: PAGE 3 By Mr. McNeil 8 4 By Mr. Heeb 97 5 By Mr. McNeil 98 6 7 E X H I B I T S 8 NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE 9 Exhibit 62 Report from State Board of 10 Accounts for Van Buren Township 62 11 Exhibit 63 Letter to the Officials of 12 Van Buren Township 66 13 Exhibit 64 John Hamilton Memo, 08/03/2021 71 14 Exhibit 65 Calendar Appointment for 15 In-person Annexation Meeting, 16 01/09/21 76 17 Exhibit 66 Nextdoor Correspondence 85 18 Exhibit 67 Documents Brought by Witness 100 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE REPORTER: Good morning. My name 3 is Andrew Pronschinske; I am the reporter assigned by 4 Veritext to take the record of this proceeding. We're 5 now on the record at 10:36 a.m. 6 This is the deposition of Rita Barrow 7 taken in the matter of County Residents Against 8 Annexation, Incorporated and Indiana not-for-profit 9 Corporation et al. vs. The Common Council of the City 10 of Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana, et al. on 11 March 14, 2024, at the Bloomington City Hall, 401 12 North Morton Street, Bloomington, Indiana, 46 -- 13 47404. 14 I am a notary authorized to take 15 acknowledgments and administer oaths in Indiana. 16 Additionally, absent an objection on 17 the record before the witness is sworn, all parties 18 and the witness understand and agree that any 19 certified transcript produced from the recording of 20 this proceeding: 21 - is intended for all uses permitted 22 under applicable procedural and 23 evidentiary rules and laws in the 24 same manner as a deposition recorded 25 by stenographic means; and 7 1 - shall constitute written stipulation 2 of such. 3 At this time will everyone in 4 attendance please identify yourself for the record, 5 beginning from my left. 6 MR. MCNEIL: Andrew McNeil, Bose 7 McKinney & Evans for the City of Bloomington. 8 MR. UNGER: Steve Unger also with the 9 City of Bloomington. 10 MS. CLEMENTS: Margaret Clements, 11 County Residents Against Annexation. 12 MR. HEEB: Ryan Heeb, of the firm 13 Bunger & Robertson for the petitioners. 14 MS. BARROW: Rita Barrow, Van Buren 15 Township Trustee. 16 THE REPORTER: Thank you. Hearing no 17 objection, I will now swear in the witness. 18 Please raise your right hand. 19 WHEREUPON, 20 RITA BARROW, 21 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 22 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 23 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 24 THE REPORTER: Thank you. We may 25 proceed. 8 1 EXAMINATION 2 BY MR. MCNEIL: 3 Q Please state your name for the record. 4 A Rita Barrow. 5 Q Ms. Barrow, as we just met my name is Andrew 6 McNeil. I'm one of the attorneys for the City of 7 Bloomington in this annexation remonstrance case. 8 Have you ever had the opportunity to provide 9 deposition testimony before? 10 A No. 11 Q Have you ever testified in a court 12 proceeding? 13 A No. Well -- I'm sorry, yes. Yes, I did one 14 time prior. There was an incident that I had an 15 intruder to come into my home and that was taken to 16 court. 17 Q So was that a criminal case against the 18 intruder? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Okay. How long ago was that? 21 A I'm going to say 15 or 16 years ago. 22 Q So for a deposition, the ground rules are 23 pretty simple. I'm going to ask you a series of 24 questions and your job is to answer them as completely 25 and as truthfully as you can. Does that make sense? 9 1 A Yes. 2 Q If you don't understand my question will you 3 let me know? 4 A Absolutely. 5 Q If you don't hear me or need me to rephrase 6 something will you let me know that too? 7 A Yes. 8 Q If you need to take a break for any reason 9 to use the restroom or stand to stretch your legs will 10 you let me know that? 11 A Yes. 12 Q Did you do anything to prepare for the 13 deposition today? 14 A I have a few -- a few items that I focused 15 on as far as whenever the residents would come into 16 our office and ask about it. 17 Q So you have a folder in front of you that 18 has a handful of -- 19 A I just made copies. 20 Q Is that one -- 21 A And I -- I think you have these. 22 Q So did you make copies -- extra copies for 23 everybody? 24 A Not for everybody just for one. I don't 25 want to make extra copies if I don't have to. 10 1 Q Sure. So how many different packets are 2 stapled together in your folder? 3 A Two. 4 Q And how -- 5 A Those are something else, but -- and that's 6 not for annexations. 7 Q So the other papers in your folder, which 8 you've now closed are unrelated to the annexation? 9 A No. They relate to it, but that's -- it's 10 just information that I've received, so it's not 11 anything big. 12 Q So -- received from where? 13 A Everyone. 14 Q So let's just if we -- can we -- do you mind 15 if I look at your folder like just the whole folder? 16 Thank you. 17 A Mm-hmm. 18 Q You've handed me the folder. The first 19 document on top says "Annexation Financial Impact 20 Monroe County Government minus negative $2,737,000" 21 and then there's other data there; correct? 22 A Yes. 23 Q The second page says, "Van Buren is not 24 interested in becoming part of the annexation" and 25 then there it says "Township assistance provides" and 11 1 then there's a table of different services the 2 township provides? 3 A Yes. 4 Q And then some narrative comments at the 5 bottom. 6 A Yes. 7 Q And then the third page looks like a 8 financial report or comparative data from 2021 9 estimated revenue impact to overlapping taxing units 10 with Baker Tilly information in one column. Reedy 11 Financial Group in another column and then a variance 12 column at the far-right side; correct? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Where did this first page this "Annexation 15 Financial Impact Data" document come from? 16 A I believe that came from the County, but I'm 17 not positive on -- I didn't go into depth to try it 18 find it, but I think it was in the news -- oh, it was 19 in the HT. 20 Q In the what? The Harold Times? 21 A Harold Times. 22 Q Is this something you copied from the Harold 23 Times? 24 A Yes. 25 Q When did you prepare this document? 12 1 A Probably 2021 -- 2021. 2 Q Okay. And then the second page the "Van 3 Buren is not interested in becoming a part of the 4 annexation" this -- 5 A That's mine. 6 Q When was this created? 7 A That was created about -- I'm going to say 8 three to four months ago. 9 Q Well, the far-right column is 2024 year to 10 date and this is the middle of March 2024. 11 A So -- well, that could be my budget that 12 was -- imposed there, but I'm not positive. I can't 13 remember the dates. I -- 14 Q What was the purpose for preparing this? 15 A Just to show what we do and how much we 16 spend each year and what kind of impact this would be 17 on annexation. 18 Q So the figures that are in the table -- 19 A That is what we have spent for -- from I 20 think it's 2020. Is that correct? 21 Q Yes. 2020 through 2024 year to date. 22 A Yes. 23 Q And it's broken down by year? 24 A Yes. 25 Q So for 2020, for example, it says the totals 13 1 are $89,326.67. 2 A Correct. And if you think about it, that 3 was during COVID. 4 Q Sure. So 2023, the totals are $124,184.85? 5 A Yes. 6 Q And these are amounts the township trustee 7 has spent on assistance programs? 8 A Yes. 9 Q It's not the total budget? 10 A No. No. 11 Q And then this comparative page between Baker 12 Tilly and Reedy Financial, where did you get this 13 from? 14 A From Baker Tilly, I believe. And that's 15 been -- what two, three years ago. 16 Q And the next document, it's actually the 17 same thing. 18 A Yes. 19 Q Okay. And there's -- 20 A The map. 21 Q The map. Is this -- what is this a map of? 22 A Of the annexation area in Van Buren. 23 Q So it's 1B? 24 A 1A. 25 Q I'm sorry, 1A overlap and -- 14 1 A And 1B, yes. 2 Q So Van Buren Township has parcels in both 1A 3 and 1B? 4 A Yes. 5 Q And then there's some narrative notes. 6 A Yeah. 7 Q Did you write those? 8 A I think I probably did. 9 Q When did you prepare this document? 10 A Oh, my gosh. I'm going to say probably 11 January, February of this year. 12 Q What was your purpose in creating them? 13 A Just so I would have reference. 14 Q The next document is titled "Annexation 15 Subpoena," do you see that? What is this document? 16 A That is one that was given to me as far as 17 being subpoenaed. 18 Q What -- who gave it to you? 19 A I would say probably one of the law offices 20 and it may have been you. 21 Q Well -- so how did you receive this 22 document, by email? 23 A Mm-hmm. 24 Q You have to say "yes" for the record. 25 A Yes. 15 1 MR. HEEB: Can I see what you're 2 looking at? 3 BY MR. MCNEIL: 4 Q So it says "Annexation Subpoena." First 5 sentence when contractors build into additions, they 6 request sewer and water, example cost of home and 7 labor involved $250,000. Do you see -- well, you're 8 familiar with that? You shook your head, yes? 9 A Yes. I'm sorry. 10 Q That's all right. But it's your testimony 11 that you were not the author of this document; 12 correct? Let me -- did you write this document? 13 A I don't know. I can't see it from here. 14 Q I'm sorry. 15 A This is mine. 16 Q Okay. So when you said you got something 17 from the law office, you were referring to the 18 subpoena itself? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Okay. And then there's a document for 21 police? 22 A Yes. 23 Q Did you write that as well? 24 A Yes. 25 Q It refers to a 2019, study the City 16 1 commissioned. Are you familiar with the Novak 2 Consulting Group report? 3 A No. 4 Q The study said we needed 121 officers -- 5 A I'm sorry. Yes, I do. I had read that and 6 that was something that I thought that if you asked 7 me, I could say, "Okay. Let me find my notes." 8 Q So the -- did you read that report? 9 A Only that. 10 Q Only the conclusion? 11 A That's the only, yes. That's the only thing 12 that I read in that. 13 Q The only thing you read just so the record 14 is clear. The only thing you read in that report was 15 the conclusion that the City of Bloomington needed 121 16 police officers? 17 A Yes. And by the time that they add everyone 18 else in, there's a report that says they will need 19 over 160 to be able to provide public service to all 20 the areas. 21 Q What report is that? 22 A I can't tell you because I didn't have it 23 down there. 24 Q So this -- you say here the national average 25 indicates a community needs 1.6 officers for every 17 1 thousand people. 2 A Yes. 3 Q What national -- what's the source of that 4 national average? 5 A If I had my computer in front of me, I could 6 tell you. 7 Q Do you know if it's from the FBI? 8 A I don't know who it's from. 9 Q So was it a -- this average was it a 10 staffing recommendation or does it reflect what the 11 average is in the field? 12 A It was a staffing recommendation. 13 Q Okay. And do you have your computer with 14 you? 15 A No, I do not. 16 Q So you believe there is a report out there 17 that says the national average staffing recommendation 18 is 1.6 officers for every thousand people? 19 A Yes. And I'll be very honest on this. This 20 is not anything to do with Van Buren other than the 21 fact that the residents of Van Buren will need 22 additional public safety people. 23 Q Did you know what the population count is of 24 the Van Buren township residents who are in annexation 25 areas 1A and 1B? 18 1 A The whole total is about 13,000. 2 Q The whole total of Van Buren Township is 3 13,000? 4 A Yes. 5 Q And what portion of that population is in 6 annexation areas 1A and 1B? 7 A Thirty -- 3100, I believe. It's close to 8 3100. 9 Q And looking back at this map, the area 10 shaded in blue is that the Van Buren Township? 11 A No. That is all Perry. Perry Township 12 within Van Buren. 13 Q So which -- 14 A If not -- unless that doesn't -- let me see. 15 Q Sorry. Yellow is target -- it says yellow 16 is targeted for annexation. 17 A Yes, this is all Van Buren. 18 Q So it's your -- and is that the entirety of 19 the Van Buren Township area that is in annexation area 20 1A or 1B? 21 A Both. No, I'm sorry. 1B -- 1B because 22 after it -- it starts in Richland Township in Highland 23 Village and goes all the way to State Road 45 and then 24 from State Road 45 to Fullerton Pike. 25 Q So what did you -- what did you just 19 1 describe? 2 A Where 1A was and 1B was. 3 Q Right. So what I'm asking to understand is 4 this yellow shaded area on this map is that the 5 totality of Van Buren Township area -- 6 A No. 7 Q That is in annexation area 1A and/or 1B? 8 A Yes. 9 Q Right. So it's your testimony there's 10 approximately 3100 people who live in that yellow- 11 shaded area? 12 A It's not the yellow. It's the blue, I 13 believe. 14 Q So it says blue is not targeted for 15 annexation. 16 A Okay. Okay. This is a different map. 17 blue -- blue is where it was not asked. And if you 18 look at the yellow right there according to what I've 19 read the City wanted the committee to -- community 20 area to stay together. The yellow and the blue going 21 across the line there was not annexed. And my 22 question was why did you not annex the whole community 23 there? 24 Q Right. So this is -- this is just a 25 snapshot of a subset of Van Buren Township -- 20 1 A Yes. 2 Q -- overlap with the annexation areas? 3 A Yes, 1B. 4 Q So when you said earlier that this is all of 5 the Van Buren Township area -- 6 A It's not all. 7 Q That's in 1A a 1B, that was incorrect? 8 A It is 1B. 9 Q But it's only a portion of -- 10 A Yes. 11 Q -- it's only a portion of the Van Buren 12 Township property in 1B? 13 A Correct. 14 Q All right. Have city police officers 15 reached out to the Van Buren Township Trustee to tell 16 you of their poor working conditions? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Who? Which officers? 19 A I have no idea. That's been a long time 20 ago. 21 Q And they're talking to you directly? 22 A Yes. It's either by phone or in person and 23 that has been a couple years ago. 24 Q There's a document here with the title 25 "Circuit Breaker -- 21 1 A Mm-hmm. 2 Q Are they -- you have to say "yes." Sorry. 3 A Yes. I'm sorry. 4 Q That's all right. You'll get used to it. 5 It's -- it's different because we have, you know, you 6 don't normally talk to someone and there's a 7 transcript being made. There's a document that says 8 "Circuit Breaker;" correct? 9 A Correct. 10 Q Is this a document you typed up? 11 A Yes. 12 Q Then there are three pages of text that have 13 quotes by a person named Ross. Ross said -- and it's 14 in -- it's a description of tax caps and circuit 15 breakers and things like that? 16 A Correct. 17 Q Do you know what this is? 18 A They were probably my notes whenever 19 annexation was occurring. 20 Q Do you know if this was -- it looks to me 21 here -- it looks to me like at least those first two 22 pages were copied from an article and pasted into a 23 document? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Is that what's going on? 22 1 A Yes. 2 Q Do you know what article it was that that 3 data -- that information comes from? 4 A No. And I will say this was -- excuse me. 5 My notes to the residents if they came in and asked 6 for an explanation of what was going to happen. 7 Bottom line, I gave them as much information as what I 8 could that I could back myself on. 9 But it's from what I've seen and what I've 10 heard and one I've spoke with, individuals that are 11 over this 65 that get that circuit breaker and that 12 tax, if their assessed value went over, then they did 13 not get the circuit breaker. 14 Q Right. You understand there's assessed 15 value and income limitations on the over-65 circuit 16 breaker? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Okay. And the last page in your folder. 19 It's a document it says "City gives grants to the 20 following" with amounts and Van Buren donated 21 amounts -- 22 A Yes. 23 Q -- and the Red Cross, Community Kitchen, 24 organizations like that. 25 A Correct. 23 1 Q What is this document? 2 A That is my document that I -- I give to 3 certain non-profits because Van Buren does not have a 4 food pantry, which we help out Red Cross whenever 5 there's a fire that's in Van Buren. We try to help 6 them to help the resident or the renter that was not 7 permitted to go back into the property. 8 As well as we have guidelines that we are 9 not over a certain amount within Van Buren for rent or 10 utilities. That's our guidelines given to the State 11 Board of Accounts. 12 Q Okay. There's a note on the back to the 13 very first page. It says "At least 20 percent of Van 14 Buren residents are living on social security alone." 15 A Yes. 16 Q What's the source of that information? 17 A Census. 18 Q Do you know what portion of those residents 19 of Van Buren Township live in either area 1A or 1B? 20 A 1A and 1B. 21 Q Right. But -- 22 A Both. 23 Q Sure. But my question is so if there's -- 24 say there's 100,000 people. That's just a round 25 number. Easy to do math with and 20 percent of them 24 1 in the total area are on social security. That's 2 20,000 people. 3 A That's correct. 4 Q In that example, do you know what portion of 5 that -- what represents the 20,000 people on a 6 percentage basis would reside in either 1A or 1B? 7 A I'm going to say at least 20 percent. 8 Q So 20 percent of the 20 percent? 9 A Mm-hmm, 20 percent of the 200 or the what 10 was it you asked me in the first? 11 Q Well, so I said assume 100,000 people. 12 A 100,000. Okay. And the reason I know this 13 is because I have individuals that call me and say, 14 "Rita, can you look up" -- which was provided by the 15 City, "what my impact would be on assessed value and 16 what my taxes would be." And I said, "Sure." 17 So I went back to that document. They give 18 me their address. I'd look at it and I'd say, 19 "According to this, it looks like you're going to go X 20 amount over." 21 Q So let me try to focus my question based on 22 the answer you provided before that one. Are you 23 saying that all of the Van Buren residents who are on 24 social security alone -- 25 A No. I'm not saying -- 25 1 Q -- live in areas 1A and 1B? 2 A No. 3 Q Right. 4 A I'm saying 20 percent of the residents that 5 are being annexed live on social security alone. 6 Q So if there were 3100 residents in the 7 annexation area -- 8 A 20 percent of that is 62. 9 Q You have to let me finish my question. 10 Sorry, 620; right? 11 A Yeah. 12 Q Okay. So it's your belief that there's 13 approximately 600 or so social security only residents 14 of Van Buren Township who reside in area 1A or 1B? 15 A Yes. 16 Q And that's just based on your sense of 17 things or is that based on a study that you've done? 18 A It's not based on a study. Because you 19 can't get an actual. 20 Q Right. So we're going to before this is 21 over, we're going to mark this as an exhibit and make 22 it -- we'll make copies of it and then put it to the 23 transcript, so everybody has a copy of it. And I 24 asked you -- we started there with what you had done 25 to prepare for the deposition and I think you said 26 1 you -- that's how we got into your folder. What else 2 did you do to prepare for the deposition? 3 A That's it. 4 Q Did you talk to Ms. Clements or anybody from 5 Mr. Heeb's office? 6 A No. Mr. Beggs, I talked with whenever this 7 was all going that I was going to be annexed. And he 8 did no more than just tell me tell the truth. 9 Q And you said you were going to be annexed, 10 you meant you were going to be deposed? 11 A I'm sorry, yes. 12 Q Okay. So your conversation with Mr. Beggs 13 was there's going to be a deposition and you just need 14 to tell the truth? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Okay. Any other communications with anyone 17 about the deposition, you know, what kind of questions 18 are going to be asked. What to expect? Anything like 19 that? 20 A No. 21 Q You're familiar with the organization of 22 County Residents Against Annexation? 23 A Yes. 24 Q What is your affiliation or involvement with 25 that organization? 27 1 A My affiliation is nothing more than as a 2 trustee, and as a trustee, I want to know what's going 3 on to tell the residents. As far as anything else, 4 I'm not involved. 5 Q When you say you're a trustee, you mean the 6 township trustee -- 7 A Correct. 8 Q -- not a trustee of the organization? 9 A No, no. 10 Q Have you had in the past more involvement 11 with County Residents Against Annexation than just 12 being the Van Buren Township Trustee? 13 A No. That's my -- that's my role. 14 Q Were you a co-founder of the organization? 15 A No. 16 Q You aware of anyone representing to the 17 public that you were a co-founder of the organization? 18 A Not to my knowledge. 19 Q Did you assist the organization in 20 collecting remonstrance petition signatures in the 21 fall of 2021? 22 A No. 23 Q Did your office provide any support or 24 assistance to those opposing annexation during the 25 remonstrance period? 28 1 A No. 2 Q Did you distribute anti-annexation signs 3 from your township trustee's office? 4 A Only if they come in and ask. I had them in 5 my vehicle. 6 Q You had them in Rita Barrow's personal 7 vehicle -- 8 A Correct. 9 Q -- as opposed to Rita Barrow township 10 trustee? 11 A Correct. 12 Q And you kept them in your vehicle, you did 13 not bring them inside to the township trustee's 14 office? 15 A Not that I recall. 16 Q How many employees are there in the township 17 trustee office today? 18 A Eleven. 19 Q How many were there in 2021? 20 A Eleven. 21 Q All right. Are there any employees at the 22 Van Buren Township Trustee's office who to your 23 knowledge live in the annexation area? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Which employees in your -- in the township 29 1 trustee's office live in one of the annexation areas? 2 A Rachel Combs and her husband, David. 3 Q What is Ms. Combs's role in the township 4 trustee's office? 5 A She is my admin that produces checks to 6 vendors. 7 Q So accounts payable? 8 A Mm-hmm. 9 Q You have to say "yes." 10 A Accounts payable. 11 Q Right. And you have to say "yes" for the 12 record. Sorry. 13 A Yes. Accounts payable. 14 Q And I don't do that to be rude. I'm just 15 trying to make sure that we have a clean copy of this 16 because when somebody a month from now reads it who 17 wasn't here. They've to understand what was said and 18 so if you nod your head or something like that that's 19 open to -- 20 A I forget that we're recording, so I will try 21 to do better. 22 Q Yeah. And I'm just trying to let you know 23 I'm not being rude. I'm just trying to make sure it's 24 all a clean transcript. 25 MR. HEEB: And along those same lines 30 1 make sure he asks his question fully before you 2 respond. 3 MR. MCNEIL: That way he doesn't have 4 to decide who's talking and it's just easier. And 5 I'll try to let you finish your answer before I start 6 my next question. 7 BY MR. MCNEIL: 8 Q You mentioned David Combs too. What's his 9 role with the township trustee's office? 10 A He does not work at the office. That is 11 Rachel's husband. 12 Q Oh, so he's someone who lives in the 13 annexation area? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Have you ever discussed annexation with 16 Ms. Combs? 17 A Yes. 18 Q In what context? 19 A She would ask is there -- is there any news 20 about the annexation or I'm being -- she said I -- was 21 also have to do a deposition. And other than that, 22 no. 23 Q Have you ever asked Ms. Combs to do any work 24 from the township trustee's office for benefit of 25 those opposing annexation? 31 1 A No. 2 Q Are you -- so, there's two layers to this 3 question that I'm about to ask. One is Rita Barrow 4 personally and one is Rita Barrow township trustee. 5 A Okay. 6 Q And so when you're answering them, please 7 identify which voice you're speaking from. Are you 8 opposed to the annexation? I'll break it down. Are 9 you opposed to the annexation on a personal level? 10 A On a personal level, no. 11 Q Are you opposed to the annexation in your 12 role as a township trustee? 13 A No. Now I'm going to finish this by saying 14 no, I'm not opposed to annexation because I believe 15 the City has a rightful to go ahead and receive some 16 annexation getting them into the City. What I am 17 against is involuntary annexation. No one should be 18 allowed to go in and tell the property owner we're 19 annexing you. 20 This is going to be your tax from now on. 21 These are the rules that you're going to go by from 22 now on. 23 Q So let me ask a more precise question then. 24 Do you Rita Barrow personally oppose the City's 25 attempted annexation of areas 1A and 1B? 32 1 A Yes, at this time. 2 Q And as the township trustee, you're also 3 opposed? 4 A Yes, at this time. 5 Q Is that based on anything other than the 6 fact that it's involuntary and everything that goes 7 along with being involuntarily annexed? 8 A It goes along with being involuntary 9 annexation. 10 Q Right. So and you understand -- 11 A Both sides. As personal and as trustee. 12 Q And you understand that the statutory 13 framework of annexation in the state of Indiana allows 14 for involuntary annexation as well as a remonstrance 15 opportunity against involuntary annexation? 16 MR. HEEB: Object to the form. 17 You can go ahead and answer. 18 BY MR. MCNEIL: 19 Q So every once in a while, he'll object, and 20 that's for the judge to consider later, if necessary. 21 But since there's no judge here in the room to rule on 22 that objection, you still need it answer, so -- 23 A Okay. Would you ask it again, please? 24 Q Yes. Do you understand that the statutory 25 framework in Indiana for annexation allows for the 33 1 municipality to involuntarily annex an area, but also 2 affords the land owners and residents in that area to 3 attempt to remonstrate against the annexations? 4 MR. HEEB: Same objection. 5 You can go ahead and answer. 6 THE WITNESS: Yes, I understand that. 7 BY MR. MCNEIL: 8 Q Okay. Philosophically, though you're -- it 9 sounds like you have an objection to the concept of 10 involuntary annexation? 11 A Exactly. 12 Q In your role as the Van Buren Township 13 Trustee that's an elected position; correct? 14 A Yes. 15 Q How long have you been in that role? 16 A I was appointed in January of 2010, elected 17 in 2011, and so I have been in this role going on 14 18 years. 19 Q Is that your full-time job? 20 A Yes. 21 Q What did you do for work before you were a 22 township trustee? 23 A I was retired. 24 Q Where did you retire from? 25 A Thompson Consumer Electronics in 34 1 Indianapolis. 2 Q You worked at the Indianapolis location? 3 A I worked at Bloomington, Juarez, and 4 Indianapolis. 5 Q What did you do there at Thompson? 6 A I was supply chain. 7 Q How many years did you work at Thompson all 8 offices combined? 9 A Twenty-nine years. 10 Q Which Thompson location was your last 11 Thompson location? 12 A Headquarters -- on I think it's 106th 13 Street. 14 Q In Indianapolis? 15 A Mm-hmm. 16 Q It's now the St. Vincent Ascension 17 headquarters or at least some operational building. 18 A Yes. 19 Q It's still considered one of the ugliest 20 buildings in Indianapolis. 21 A It is. 22 MR. HEEB: I feel like I should object 23 to the form of that question, but I don't have a dog 24 in that fight. 25 // 35 1 BY MR. MCNEIL: 2 Q What is your -- so do you live in Van Buren 3 Township? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Do you live in one of the annexation areas? 6 A No. 7 Q Did you sign a remonstrance petition? 8 A No. 9 Q Where is the trustee's -- what is the 10 address of the trustee's office? 11 A 2123 South Kirby Road. 12 Q Is that in one of the annexation areas? 13 A No. 14 Q Are the duties of the township trustee 15 established by statute? 16 A Yes. 17 Q And you're familiar with that statute? 18 A Oh, absolutely. 19 Q And if I said Indiana Code 36-4-3, does that 20 sound familiar? 21 A Do you realize how many codes there are? 22 Q But this one is the township trustee's 23 duties? 24 A Yes. 25 Q You've read that before? 36 1 A Yes. 2 Q Okay. Is it one of your duties to manage 3 all the township property interests? 4 A For the township? Yes. 5 Q What property interest does the township 6 possess? 7 A What insurance? 8 Q Interests? 9 A Interest. None. 10 Q Do you currently have any property 11 management responsibilities as the township trustee? 12 A Yes. 13 Q What property management responsibilities do 14 you have? 15 A I have -- well that was prior. I did have 16 the Van Buren Fire Department on Kirby Road along with 17 station 39. Now it's station 29 and 39 that is in 18 Stanford. And then the office now that I'm at is 2123 19 the other one was 2130. 20 Q Does the township trustee own the real 21 estate where the office is located or does it rent? 22 A Yes. 23 Q Okay. And the -- when you -- when did you 24 no longer -- stop having property management 25 responsibility for the Van Buren Fire Department 37 1 property? 2 A December 2020. 3 Q Is that because effective January 2021 the 4 Monroe Fire Protection District took over the fire 5 service for Van Buren Township? 6 A Yes. And that was to save my firefighters. 7 Q What does that mean? 8 A When annexation began, I spoke with the 9 mayor and then I spoke with the fire chief, and from 10 my understanding, the fire chief told me that the 11 firefighters that had been there since 1972 as far as 12 beginning in 72, they would be allowed to drive road 13 trucks, dump trucks, trash trucks, but they would not 14 be allowed because they didn't have their 15 certifications. 16 My quote to him was they've more 17 certifications then you did and I can prove every one 18 of them because that was part of my role was to make 19 sure that they followed the rules from fire. 20 Q You said this conversation occurred when 21 annexation first started? 22 A In 2017, okay. 23 Q Are you familiar with the law that changed 24 in 2019 with respect to fire services in annexation 25 areas? 38 1 A Yes. 2 Q What is your understanding of that law? 3 A The understanding is my -- well, is that the 4 fire district will not become a part of the annexation 5 area. They will continue to run as a district. 6 Q So the Van Buren Township's current fire 7 protection is provided by the Monroe Fire Protection 8 District; correct? 9 A They're a part of the Monroe Fire Protection 10 District. 11 Q And what is your understanding of the 12 current coverage of the fire district? Like what area 13 of Monroe County does it cover? 14 A All the outstanding townships except for 15 Washington, who's getting ready to go in. Bean 16 Blossom and Richland. 17 Q So the fire protection district covers Van 18 Buren Township? 19 A Van Buren Township. 20 Q Bloomington Township? 21 A Bloomington Township. 22 Q Perry? 23 A Perry. 24 Q Clear Creek, Indian Creek? 25 A Yes. 39 1 Q And Benton; correct? 2 A And Benton and Salt and Polk and contracted 3 with them. 4 Q And Washington is currently contracted with 5 them, but about to become part of the district? 6 A That is correct. 7 Q And then you know the fire provider for 8 Richland Township? 9 A The -- you mean the fire chief? 10 Q What entity is the fire provider for 11 Richland Township? 12 A I don't understand. 13 Q Well, you -- I think you said Richland was 14 not part of the fire protection district. 15 A That's right. The township and the town pay 16 for their own. 17 Q The town of Ellettsville? 18 A Yes. 19 Q And that's what I was asking if you 20 understood who provided that service? 21 A Okay. 22 Q Where is the headquarters for the fire 23 protection district? 24 A On Kennedy Drive. 25 Q Is that in one of the annexation areas? 40 1 A I'm not sure. 2 Q But you understand that if the annexation 3 occurred the fire protection district will continue to 4 be the fire provider for the Van Buren Township 5 residents in areas 1A and 1B? 6 A Correct. 7 Q And that's -- you understand that's a 8 function of this 2019 law? 9 A Yes. 10 Q As it pertains to fire protection districts 11 in annexation areas? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Do you know if the Monroe Fire Protection 14 District fire property tax rate is higher than the tax 15 rate for the Bloomington Fire Department? 16 A I don't, no. 17 Q Would you be surprised to learn that the 18 fire rate inside the city is lower -- tax rate is 19 lower than the fire tax rate in the fire protection 20 district? 21 MR. HEEB: Object to the form. 22 You can answer. 23 THE WITNESS: Yes, because they receive 24 all the public safety, local income tax. 25 // 41 1 BY MR. MCNEIL: 2 Q Who's they? 3 A The City. 4 Q So you're saying "yes" you would surprised 5 or "yes" the City's lower because they receive the 6 public safety income tax? 7 A Yes, the City's is lower because they 8 receive the public safety local income tax. 9 Q But the -- it's your understanding that if 10 the annexation of 1A and 1B by the City is successful, 11 it will not impact the fire provider for Van Buren 12 Township? 13 A Yes, I understand that, but I also 14 understand that the -- with the minimal amount of 15 police that they've to come out that far and with the 16 continuing of addressing new police to come in, that's 17 going to take another two years to get them settled. 18 Q What does that have to do with fire 19 protection? 20 A Nothing to do with fire protection. This is 21 what I think. On my notes, it was the police -- 22 Q Right. 23 A -- and right now the time going from the 24 City to where the township is currently or any of the 25 subdivisions that's going to take a while. 42 1 Q Remember at the beginning of the deposition 2 whether I talked about ground rules and said that your 3 job was to answer my questions as completely and as 4 truthfully as you could? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Okay. So I have not asked you about the 7 police yet. 8 A Okay. 9 Q But I'm going to ask you now about crime 10 statistics and Van Buren Township, are you familiar 11 with those? 12 A No. 13 Q Are you -- is it your testimony that the 14 areas of Van Buren Township that are in annexation 15 areas 1A and 1B are high crime-ridden dangerous 16 neighborhoods? 17 A No. 18 Q They're safe neighborhoods; aren't they? 19 A Except for Walmart. 20 Q Right. 21 A And Walmart is in that area. 22 Q Right. And you understand that the 23 sheriff's department currently provides -- 24 A Yes. 25 Q Run response to Walmart? 43 1 A Yes. 2 Q Are you familiar with the way in which 3 Walmart handles shoplifting matters -- I'm sorry. Let 4 me rephrase that. Are you familiar with how the 5 county sheriff interacts with Walmart on property 6 loss, shoplifting claims? 7 A No. 8 MR. HEEB: Objection to form. 9 You can answer. 10 BY MR. MCNEIL: 11 Q Have you ever heard anyone say that the City 12 Police Department will handle Walmart calls the same 13 way the county does? 14 A No. 15 Q And are you familiar with or understand how 16 the county sheriff handles any calls to Walmart? 17 A No. 18 Q Do you know if Walmart has their own 19 security? 20 A No. 21 Q No, they don't or no, you don't know? 22 A No, I don't know. 23 Q Do you have as a township trustee do you 24 ever get information on police response time from or 25 sheriff response time from the county sheriff? 44 1 A No. 2 Q You ever ask for that information? 3 A No. 4 Q Another -- going back to the duties of the 5 township trustee, the statute includes the 6 responsibility to keep township records open for 7 public inspection. You understand that? 8 A Yes. 9 Q What township records generally are there 10 that are open to public inspection? 11 A Any of my notes. Any of my budgets. Any of 12 my annual reports. Any resolutions that the board 13 approves. Any additional appropriations that we 14 encounter or request. Any township assistance that 15 has been denied I go to court explaining why. 16 Q That's a pretty good summary as far as you 17 can tell sitting here right now? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Okay. Would your ability to continue making 20 those records open for public inspection be impacted 21 in any way if the annexation goes through? 22 A No. 23 Q You -- another statutory responsibility is 24 to attend all meetings of the township legislative 25 body; is that right? 45 1 A Yes. 2 Q What is the township legislative body? 3 A That's my board members and I have three. 4 Q Who are they? 5 A John Wilson, Will Smith, and Theresa Oatman. 6 Q What are the requirements for -- to sit on 7 the board of the township trustee board? 8 A It's an elected position. 9 Q Is there a residency requirement? 10 A Yes, they must be in Van Buren. 11 Q Are any of the three board members -- do any 12 of the three board members currently reside in area of 13 1A or 1B? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Which one? 16 A 1A Will Smith -- William Smith. 17 Q If the annexation goes through, do you have 18 any understanding of how that would affect his 19 eligibility to sit on your board? 20 A No. It should not affect anything. 21 Q Because he's still in the township; right? 22 A He's still in the township. 23 Q How often does the board meet? 24 A Every Wednesday -- third Wednesday of the 25 month. 46 1 Q Is there anything about the board meeting 2 schedule or composition that would be impacted by the 3 annexation if it were successful? 4 A No, not to my knowledge. 5 Q Okay. Another statutory function of the 6 township trustee is to receive and pay out township 7 funds; correct? 8 A Correct. 9 Q What are the sources of funds that pay into 10 the township? 11 A The local income tax, the tax as far as 12 general. FIT, which is the Financial Institution 13 Tax. The CVET, which is the county vehicle excise 14 tax. I'm trying to think. Any excess levy goes into 15 it. I believe that might be all. 16 Q What payment obligations does the township 17 trustee have with respect to those funds? In other 18 words, what are those funds used for? 19 A Whatever the law allows us to use them for. 20 It usually all goes into general, except whenever it's 21 divided out and the county auditor will distinguish 22 whether it goes into each of the items that you -- 23 that I said earlier. Those are all recorded under one 24 and our accounting goes into it this. 25 Q What is your understanding, if any, 47 1 concerning the financial impact if the annexation goes 2 through on the township's funds? 3 A It could be considerable, 51,000 was what I 4 believe Reed -- if I can remember correctly. Hang on. 5 Q And just for the record, you've opened your 6 folder and you're looking at that top document. Thee 7 third page with the comparison of the Baker Tilly and 8 Reedy Financial data. 9 A Yes. From the Reedy, it's $51,601. From 10 Baker Tilly, it was 31,408. 11 Q Is that in the first year? 12 A The first year was -- 13 Q Or is that total? 14 A That's total on both. 15 Q When you say on both, what do you mean? 16 A One from Baker Tilly, which is 31,408 and 17 that's in year two and Reedy was $51,601 and that was 18 in year two. 19 Q Do you understand that that data -- those 20 data were prepared in 2021? 21 A Oh, yes, I do understand that. Because most 22 of the residents that received anything stating that 23 they were going to be annexed moved and the ones that 24 moved in didn't have a clue, because they weren't 25 notified because it didn't say whenever they received 48 1 the Certified Mail stating that they were going to be 2 annexed. It didn't say or current resident. 3 Q Okay. Let me understand that. Are you 4 saying that a majority of the Van Buren Township land 5 owners in areas 1A and 1B have moved since 2021? 6 A I'm not going to say the majority because I 7 would not have a clue whose moved. 8 Q Okay. So what are you saying about -- what 9 do mean -- what are you communicating in this 10 deposition about the changeover in ownership of real 11 estate in Van Buren Township as it pertains to the 12 annexation? 13 A From individuals that have reached out to me 14 asking me what is annexation? What is this going to 15 do to my taxes? And again, we go through the process. 16 We use the report that was received from Mr. Rouker by 17 Van Buren. I show them, but those were all based on 18 the 2020 assessed value. It is now 2024, and you know 19 as well as I know, how much the assessed value has 20 gone up. 21 Q Right. The assessed value has gone up and 22 so, therefore the revenue received by Van Buren 23 Township has also gone up; correct? 24 A It could. It could very well go up. 25 Q From 2020 to 2024 has the Van Buren Township 49 1 Trustee's revenue receipts increased year over year? 2 A I can't say that. I can't say that and I'll 3 give you a good example because you have to take in 4 consideration that when the fire department had left 5 that dropped. 6 Q What's the current balance of your rainy-day 7 funds? 8 A Right now, it's over 2 million, and the 9 reason being, we have in the process a new township 10 office as well as a community building for Van Buren. 11 Q What's in the last four years, what was the 12 largest balance in your rainy-day fund? 13 A I would have to look back and see. 14 Q Do you have an estimate? 15 A An estimate? A guestimate, I'm going to say 16 maybe 3 million. 17 Q What is the purpose of the rainy-day fund? 18 A The rainy-day fund is used for capital or if 19 needed for township assistance or if we have a -- 20 let's say, we have a tornado go through, I try to help 21 as much as what I can to get the residents to a safe 22 area or to help them in any way that I can as far as 23 maybe replacing a window or maybe replacing a door. 24 And that's all based on their application. 25 Q When the fire department at the end of 2020 50 1 transitioned to the beginning of 2021 to the Monroe 2 Fire Protection District, did your expenses as a 3 township trustee go down? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Do you get regular financial reports like 6 income statements and cash flow statements and things 7 like that? 8 A From whom? 9 Q Just -- I mean -- 10 A Are you talking township or -- 11 Q Yes. 12 A For just township? 13 Q Yes. 14 A Yes. I -- I have those in the software 15 package. 16 Q Right. And so you get, you're familiar with 17 the net income from the township operations; correct? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Has the net income from the township 20 operations increased year over year from 2020 to 2024? 21 A No. 22 Q Does it go up some years and down some 23 years? 24 A Mm-hmm. Depending on COVID. When everyone 25 would receive the stimulus package or -- it just 51 1 depends. 2 Q Right. What do you do as the township 3 trustee, if you have net income at the end of the year 4 what happens to that? 5 A It stays. 6 Q It stays in the general or rainy-day fund? 7 A It stays in every fund. And I have three 8 primary funds. 9 Q What are your three primary funds? 10 A General, township assistance, and 11 recreation. 12 Q So township assistance is another statutory 13 function of a township trustee; correct? 14 A Yes. 15 Q It used to be known as poor relief? 16 A Correct. 17 Q So that's -- it's the same thing; right? 18 Just -- 19 A Yep. 20 Q What does township assistance include? 21 A Burials, physicians -- 22 Q Say that again? 23 A Physicians. 24 Q Physicians. 25 A Could be dental. It could be food. It 52 1 could be school supplies that are needed, rents, 2 utilities. I'm thinking. Community services and 3 that's when someone has something that they can't 4 afford to replace and it's detrimental to their home 5 and their utilities. 6 Q And there might be others, but that's what 7 comes to mind right now? 8 A Mm-hmm. 9 Q Yes. 10 A Yes. 11 Q And the process for receiving township 12 assistance is an application process? 13 A Yes. 14 Q How much did Van Buren Township payout in 15 township assistance in 2023 just as a rough? Do you 16 have that in one of your documents? 17 A That's one of the documents. In 2023? 18 Q Yes. 19 A There's all my things, $124,184.85. 20 Q And just for the record, you're looking at 21 the second page of the first document in the folder 22 that you have in front of you. 23 A Yes. 24 Q Do you have any understanding of whether 25 township assistance services provided by your office 53 1 would be impacted if the annexation of 1A and 1B goes 2 through? 3 A Other than losing the 51,000? I would 4 assume not. Because I would still find a way to 5 service my residents. 6 Q Right. And so when you say losing 51,000 7 that's based on -- 8 A Reedy. 9 Q Reedy's analysis? 10 A Yes. 11 Q But its -- so if you were to gain as the 12 real estate in the township increases in assessed 13 value your collections increase as well. 14 A Correct. 15 Q Okay. 16 A No. If -- if individuals build, okay, 17 you're adding more people, so it would go down. 18 Q You think by -- 19 A My rate would go down -- my levy would go 20 down. 21 Q Because your budget is based -- so if 22 more -- so if there's a new subdivision in Van Buren 23 Township, your levy would go down? 24 A Yes. 25 Q But the assessed value -- you're getting -- 54 1 you're applying a lower levy against a higher assessed 2 value? 3 A Correct. 4 Q So depending on how those numbers work out, 5 you could end up receiving more total revenue because 6 of the increase in assessed value, even though the 7 levy has gone down. 8 A Yes. 9 Q So if the assessed value has increased 10 enough, it's conceivable, do you agree that you could 11 net more than the $51,000 loss identified by Reedy? 12 MR. HEEB: I'm just going to object to 13 the form. 14 You can go ahead and answer. 15 THE WITNESS: I would say, yes. 16 BY MR. MCNEIL: 17 Q One of the other duties in the statute is as 18 a fence viewer. What is a fence viewer? 19 A If two property owners -- okay, one of them 20 has cattle the other one does not. The individual 21 that has cattle wants to put up a fence line. The one 22 on the other side doesn't particularly care to have 23 one, but if the one that has cattle deems that he 24 wants the property owner on the other side of him to 25 pay for half of it then there is a dispute. 55 1 And what I do then is go out stand them both 2 in the middle of the properties and say to the right 3 is yours to the left is his. And that's the way it's 4 done. 5 Q How many times a year do you get called upon 6 to perform fence viewing duties as the township 7 trustee? 8 A I would say maybe once or twice and -- and I 9 will say this, this is out further away. You're 10 talking agricultural area. 11 Q Right. Because the areas the Van Buren 12 Township areas in 1A and 1B are more developed; right? 13 A Correct. 14 Q More residential or commercial? 15 A Correct. 16 Q And more urbanized? 17 A Yes. 18 Q So if the area 1A and 1B were annexed would 19 that have any impact on your fence viewing? 20 A Wait. I'm sorry. Yes, it could. If an 21 individual was in an addition, and he put up a fence 22 okay, and the guy next to him decided I don't want 23 that fence there, as long as it's on his 24 property -- again, we'll go out yes, this is your 25 property line. 56 1 It has to be like 12 inches up the property 2 line in general or both of them agree. The best way 3 that I can do it is to get your land evaluated and go 4 from there. 5 Q So would you say that the fence viewing 6 responsibility is probably the smallest part of 7 your -- 8 A Smallest part. I do cemeteries too. 9 Q I was going to ask you, so what are your 10 responsibilities for the cemetery -- to maintain 11 cemeteries? 12 A To keep them maintained. My current -- 13 there are seven cemeteries that are within Van Buren 14 Township. Two of them are owned by Van Buren with the 15 third possibly coming on in 2024 or 2025. I maintain 16 those and maintain those means I mow them. If stones 17 are broken, I reconstruct them or have individuals to 18 reconstruct them. 19 I put up fences, so people cannot go -- 20 because they are in the rural areas, so people can't 21 drive through the cemetery with -- where it is 22 enclosed with vaults or whatever -- the stones. The 23 people that are buried there. 24 Q Are any of the seven cemeteries in Van Buren 25 Township located in area 1A or 1B? 57 1 A There is one, but I don't know if that area 2 is getting annexed. That's on the other side. 3 There's one on the airport. There is -- no. I'm 4 going to say no. 5 Q Does the township have parks or community 6 centers? 7 A We don't own it, no. 8 Q Do you maintain any? 9 A No. 10 Q You mentioned a capital project when we were 11 talking about the rainy-day fund, is there a currently 12 a community center planned or under construction? 13 A It is almost completed. 14 Q Where is it located? 15 A On 48th on Fieldstone Boulevard. 16 Q That inside or outside the annexation area? 17 A Inside. 18 Q 1A or 1B? 19 A 1A. 20 Q Do you know if the annexation goes forward, 21 do you have any understanding of how that impacts this 22 community center? 23 A It shouldn't. I had to sign a waiver. 24 Q A waiver for what? 25 A Against annexation. 58 1 Q To get utility service out there? 2 A Correct. 3 Q When did you sign that? 4 A Which time? 5 Q Well, so we're talking about this -- the 6 community center on 48th? 7 A Okay. 8 Q How many waivers did you sign for that? 9 A Two. 10 Q When did you see the first one? 11 A November -- no, October 31st? 12 Q Of what year? 13 A 23. 14 Q When did you sign the second one? 15 A A week later. 16 Q Do you have any understanding why you signed 17 two? 18 A Yes. 19 Q What's your understanding? 20 A Because when it was notarized the dates were 21 incorrect. Not from me from the notary. 22 Q So you signed a new one and got it properly 23 notarized? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Has that waiver been recorded to your 59 1 knowledge? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Did you work with someone at the City or 4 city utilities on that waiver? 5 A No. Other than her notarizing. That's -- 6 that's all. 7 Q Do you know who notarized it? 8 A No. 9 Q Somebody in the City offices? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Another township trustee's responsibility is 12 to destroy detrimental plants, noxious weeds, and rank 13 vegetation. 14 A Yes. 15 Q Is that a big part of your job? 16 A Not my job, but it's one of the individuals, 17 yes, and that's ongoing through from spring until 18 fall. 19 Q Does the -- are detrimental plants to your 20 understanding defined by statute? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Does the definition of detrimental plants 23 include as a category noxious weeds and rank 24 vegetation? 25 A Yes. 60 1 Q Is there any defined group of plants that 2 constitute noxious weeds and rank vegetation? 3 A Yes, but I don't -- couldn't tell you 4 exactly what they are. 5 Q If you needed to find a list where would you 6 look? 7 A Go to the township manual and it will list 8 it. 9 Q Are you familiar with whether or not the 10 City of Bloomington has their own list of detrimental 11 plants, noxious weeds, and rank vegetation? 12 A No. 13 Q If the annexation goes forward would your 14 responsibility for addressing detrimental plants, 15 noxious weeds, and rank vegetation be impacted at all? 16 A No. 17 Q Another statutory duty of the trustee is to 18 provide insulin to the poor? 19 A Yes. 20 Q What does that involve? 21 A If we have an individual that is diabetic 22 and they are unable financially to provide insulin, I 23 provide it. 24 Q Is there an application process for that? 25 A There is an application. 61 1 Q If the annexation goes forward does that 2 impact your insulin provision services at all? 3 A No. It should not. 4 MR. MCNEIL: It's been about a little 5 over an hour that we've been on the record. I have 6 got a little bit more, but I think it would probably 7 make sense to take like a five or ten-minute break 8 before we switch into different topics. So we'll go 9 off the record now. 10 THE REPORTER: Off the record at 11:47 11 a.m. 12 (Off the record.) 13 THE REPORTER: We're now back on the 14 record at 12:03 p.m. 15 BY MR. MCNEIL: 16 Q Ms. Barrow, we're back on the record after a 17 break, do you understand that you're still under oath? 18 A Yes. 19 Q I'm going to give you some documents I want 20 to take a look at. So this would be Exhibit 61, I 21 believe. 22 MR. UNGER: 62. 23 MR. MCNEIL: 62. 24 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 25 // 62 1 BY MR. MCNEIL: 2 Q Ms. Barrow, do you have Exhibit 62 in front 3 of you? 4 (Exhibit 62 was marked for 5 identification.) 6 A Yes. 7 Q And this is a report from the State Board of 8 Accounts. 9 A Yes. 10 Q It's the Financial Statements Audit Report 11 from Van Buren Township. 12 A Yes. 13 Q January 1, 2014, through December 31, 2017; 14 correct? 15 A Correct. 16 Q If you look on that first page at the title 17 page. 18 A Yes. 19 Q How often does the State Board of Accounts 20 audit the township trustee's office? 21 A Usually every four to five years. 22 Q What is your role personally in the audit 23 and how involved are you in that process? 24 A Very involved. 25 Q And what does that include? 63 1 A I must provide all documents that they 2 request whether it be the vendors that I paid, the 3 payroll reports that were done, annual reports being 4 on time, continuous. 5 Q Okay. So if you noticed in the bottom 6 corner there's some page numbers there. It says 7 Bloomington underscore and then some series of 8 numbers. I'm going to ask you to turn to the pages 9 ending 286. So it's going to be a financial schedule 10 that looks like this. 11 A Okay. 286? 12 Q Yes. 13 A Got it. 14 Q So if you take a moment to look at that 15 page, I'm not asking you for the numbers that we can 16 all see, but just generally what is the information 17 shown on this page? What does it mean or what are 18 these columns I should put it that way? 19 A Well, the first column is the township 20 office. The second column was Van Buren's Fire with 21 the EMS. The third was the recreation fund. 22 Q And what does that mean like when it says 23 township, what does that represent? 24 A Township general. Anything that goes within 25 the township general. An example would be payroll for 64 1 the trustee, for the board, and for any accounts 2 payable individual. It would be for utilities, 3 insurance on the buildings on the construction so 4 forth, and so on. Okay. And it goes all the way down 5 through. 6 Q All right. So the -- you said the emergency 7 medical was for the fire -- is that the EMT? 8 A EMS. 9 Q EMS. 10 A Mm-hmm. 11 Q And then there's a separate firefighting 12 fund? 13 A Correct. 14 Q Is that for the firefighting operations 15 themselves? 16 A Yes. 17 Q And then the rainy-day fund is listed in its 18 own column; correct? 19 A Correct. 20 Q And if you turn over a page to page ending 21 in 287, the first six columns are additional funds; 22 correct? 23 A Yes. 24 Q The Koonz Cemetery donation fund and the 25 Harmony Cemetery are those the two cemeteries that the 65 1 township trustee owns or maintains? 2 A We own. 3 Q Okay. You mentioned the seven cemeteries in 4 Van Buren Township? 5 A Yes. 6 Q So the other five are ones you do not own, 7 but you do maintain them? 8 A We provide a fund for them if possible -- 9 if -- they have to give us so much documents for the 10 audits that we have to make sure that they are in 11 need. 12 Q And then the looking page 287, the very last 13 column on the right. It's the totals column. 14 A Correct. 15 Q Do I understand that to be the total of all 16 the columns to the left? 17 A Yes. 18 Q For the various categories -- the various 19 rows of data that are included in the table? 20 A Yes. 21 Q So the cash on hand at the beginning of 2017 22 would have been $3.3 million and at the end of 2017, 23 it's just a little bit over $4 million? 24 A Correct. 25 Q All right. Now here's another document that 66 1 would be Exhibit 62. 2 MR. UNGER: 63. 3 BY MR. MCNEIL: 4 Q Sorry, 63. 5 (Exhibit 63 was marked for 6 identification.) 7 Ms. Barrow, do you have Exhibit 63 in front 8 of you? 9 A Yes. 10 Q It's a letter to the officials of the Van 11 Buren Township Trustee Monroe County, Indiana, dated 12 May 15, 2023, from the state of Indiana; correct? 13 A Yes. 14 Q And for present purposes, I just want to 15 look at page ending 262. 16 A Okay. 17 Q On this page, we see what's called a 18 "Schedule of cash and investment balances on a 19 regulatory basis as of December 31, 2022;" correct? 20 A Correct. 21 Q And so under the heading fund there are 22 several entries Township Recreation Fund, et cetera. 23 A Correct. 24 Q I noticed that the EMS fund and the 25 firefighting fund are removed; correct? 67 1 A Correct 2 Q The total amount of cash on hand as of the 3 end of December of 2022 is $5.1 million; correct? 4 A Correct. 5 Q How close is the balance today? 6 A 4.2. 7 Q 4.2? 8 A Mm-hmm. 9 Q Now you mentioned COVID earlier, but at the 10 end of 2017, you had total cash on hand of $4 million, 11 and in February -- I'm sorry, in December of 2022, you 12 had $5 million. So is it fair to say that the amount 13 of cash on hand grew by 25 percent over the five years 14 including the COVID period? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Why is the township -- well let me ask it 17 this way. How much cash reserves does the township 18 trustee need? 19 A Our budgets starts in June when we start our 20 budgets, okay? Over in December, we do not get 21 anything from January until May for any tax allotment, 22 so from January to May, end of May or whenever the 23 auditor distributes those. We have to keep that 24 balance going. I mean we still have bills. We still 25 have assistance we're paying for, so the cash on hand 68 1 takes us through that first six months. 2 Q So how often-- you get payment roughly 3 speaking from the auditor twice a year? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Roughly May and November? 6 A Yes. 7 Q Corresponding to when the property taxes are 8 due? 9 A Yes. 10 Q So you get a payment in November that has to 11 carry you through until the payment in May? 12 A Correct. 13 Q All right. But the cash on hand increased 14 from 4 million to 5 million from 2017 to 2022. Is 15 there a -- are there amounts within either the 5 16 million at the end of 2022 or the 4.2 million today 17 that are reserved against certain liabilities or are 18 these generally available funds cash unrestricted? 19 A No. They -- whatever fund name they're in 20 that's where they have to stay unless we request a 21 transfer from a fund to a fund. 22 Q Right. But the -- so let's say, for 23 example, you have a liability that you know is going 24 to come due in 60 days, do you have to set a reserve 25 in your general fund for example so that you know 69 1 you'll have the money for that liability 60 days from 2 now when it comes due? 3 A Yes. 4 Q Is there an amount specifically of that $4.2 5 million that's tied to a known claim for which there 6 is a reserve? 7 A Yes. 8 Q How much? 9 A That's the $2.1 million for the township 10 office and the community building. 11 Q So the other 2.1 million currently in the 12 fund is specific to whichever fund it's in? 13 A Correct. 14 Q Okay. Have you ever had to borrow money as 15 the township to cover the float between tax payments? 16 A I'm thinking about this. We imposed a tax 17 when we bought fire engines, okay? So we had a debt 18 there, but as far as transferring to and from, no. 19 Not that I -- 20 Q Are you familiar -- I'm sorry. I didn't 21 mean to cut off there. 22 A No. Not that I can recall. 23 Q Are you familiar with the thing known as the 24 tax anticipation warrant? 25 A No. 70 1 Q So you've never had to use one? 2 A No. 3 Q You familiar with a report known as the 4 Kernan-Shephard Report? 5 A Yes. 6 Q What is your understanding of what that 7 report is? 8 A They would like to do away with trustees. 9 Q Was it -- do you understand that report was 10 published before you were in the trustee role? 11 A Yes. 12 Q Have you ever read it? 13 A Not completely, no. 14 Q You read the recommendations on abolishing 15 township government? 16 A Yes. 17 Q You understand that that recommendation to 18 eliminate township government was a bipartisan 19 recommendation? 20 A No, I didn't. 21 Q Do you agree with that recommendation? 22 A No. 23 Q What do you see as the benefit of township 24 government? 25 A The best that I can describe to is a -- is 71 1 if a resident of Van Buren comes into the office and 2 says my electricity has been shot off and I'm going to 3 get an eviction notice in two days. Can you help me? 4 Tell me where else you would go to be able to turn 5 around the assistance for that individual within 24 6 hours. 7 If we have 72, but we usual with something 8 like this on the average, I can turn them around in 9 less than 24 hours. 10 Q So do I understand you to be saying and 11 please correct me if I'm wrong or incomplete, that 12 your ability to provide township assistance is what 13 you perceive to be the primary benefit of township 14 government? 15 A Absolutely. 16 Q All right. This will be 64. 17 (Exhibit 64 was marked for 18 identification.) 19 Ms. Barrow, you have Exhibit 64 in front of 20 you. 21 A Yes. 22 Q It's a memo. Memorandum for the record to 23 the Bloomington City Common Council and Mayor John 24 Hamilton from County Residents Against Annexation 25 dated August 3, 2021, do you see that? 72 1 A Yes. 2 Q Have you ever seen this before? And I'm 3 going to -- let me withdraw that question. I would 4 like for you to please read this document. It's just 5 roughly a page to yourself and let me know when you're 6 finished and then I'll ask you questions about it. 7 A Okay. I'm finished. 8 Q So the last paragraph on the first page -- 9 first have you seen this document before today? 10 A No. 11 Q Were you present at the city council meeting 12 in August -- I believe it was August 4th, whatever the 13 first day of school was in 2021? 14 A No, I did not go. 15 Q Okay. Did you watch it online? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Do you know if Margaret Clements spoke at 18 that meeting -- made a presentation or made comments 19 to the city council? 20 A I believe so, but I'm not positive. It's 21 been too long ago. 22 Q Sure. The last paragraph on the first page 23 identifies the co-founders of County Residents Against 24 Annexation as yourself, Margaret Clements, and Colby 25 Wicker, do you see that? 73 1 A Yeah. 2 Q Who's Colby Wicker? 3 A He is one of my individuals. He's an intern 4 that I have. 5 Q At your office? 6 A Mm-hmm. 7 Q You have to say "yes." 8 A Yes. 9 Q He's currently an intern? 10 A Yes -- no. Right now he is going to law 11 school. 12 Q So he was an intern in the past? 13 A Correct. 14 Q And this was in -- was he an intern in 2021? 15 A Yes. 16 Q I asked you earlier if you were a co-founder 17 of county residents. Does this refresh your 18 recollection about that or is this just wrong? 19 A I don't remember being a co-founder, okay? 20 Because in an elected position I could not do that. 21 Q Why not? What's your understanding as to 22 why not? 23 A The why not because there are people that do 24 want it, people that don't want and I can't take a 25 side. And I'm not being annexed. I will say this 74 1 that, yes, I have been very well involved with 2 annexation whenever it began in 2017. Again, I'm 3 going to say I am not against annexation. I am 4 against involuntary annexation and this -- I was never 5 a board member, although I did go to a few of the 6 meetings. Simply because to keep our residents 7 updated for CRAA. 8 Q Why did you want to keep your residents 9 updated for -- oh, residents in the community. I got 10 you. 11 A Yes. 12 Q Yes. So what did Colby Wicker do when he 13 was in an intern in your office? 14 A He helped me with day-to-day township 15 trustee. 16 Q Was he a paid intern? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Was he in school -- 19 A Yes. 20 Q -- in college at the time? 21 A Yes. 22 Q I'm not texting, I'm looking something up 23 that pertains to the questions I'm asking you. That's 24 why I'm on my phone. You understood -- you said 25 you're not against annexation generally, but you 75 1 would -- you are opposed to involuntary annexation? 2 A That is correct. 3 Q What as an intern -- what were Colby 4 Wicker's responsibilities when he was in your office? 5 A Helping with township assistance, helping 6 with COVID -- that people needed different things. He 7 would -- back up an everyone that's in the office, 8 you know, he couldn't do the accounts payable, but he 9 could go in and say, you know, okay, we got the mail. 10 He would only work maybe 15 hours a week at the most 11 at that time. 12 Q Did during that time when he was at your 13 office, did the two of you discuss Bloomington's 14 involuntary annexation plans? 15 A I will say off and on, yes, and the reason 16 I'm saying that is because calls would come in asking 17 about it and he would come in and say to me, "Rita, do 18 you understand or do you know anything" -- no. 19 Q Did you ever have any meetings at the 20 township trustee office with Margaret Clements 21 concerning annexation? 22 A No. 23 Q And by that question, I mean whether as a 24 one-on-one meeting or meeting with the two of you and 25 others? You had no meetings about annexation in 76 1 Bloomington annexation? 2 A We had meetings, yes. Like I said, I went 3 to the CRAA meetings -- 4 Q Right. My question is specific to meetings 5 at the township trustee's office? 6 A No. And I'm going to say this not to my 7 recollection. I -- I can't recall any. 8 Q Did you ever have a meeting here at city 9 hall with Mayor Hamilton and other township trustees? 10 A Yes. 11 Q And specifically about annexation? 12 A Correct. Thank you. 13 Q Ms. Barrow, you have Exhibit 65 in front of 14 you, which is a printout of a calendar appointment 15 where the subject is "Trustee's Re: Annexation In 16 Person," do you see that? 17 (Exhibit 65 was marked for 18 identification.) 19 A Yes. 20 Q The date is June 9, 2021? Do you see that? 21 A Yes. 22 Q It shows here that there are names Kim 23 Alexander, Bloomington Township; Rita Barrow of Van 24 Buren Township; Marty Stephens, Richland Township, and 25 Dan Combs, Perry Township. Do you see that? 77 1 A Yes. 2 Q Were all four of those people at the 3 meeting? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Who from the City in addition to Mayor John 6 Hamilton attended? 7 A Carmichael, is that her name? 8 Q Mary-Catherine Carmichael? 9 A Yes. Yes. And Griffin. 10 Q Don Griffin? 11 A Mm-hmm. 12 Q Yes? 13 A Yes. 14 Q What did you understand their positions to 15 be with the City, if any? 16 A I never heard what their positions were to 17 be on that. 18 Q So the meeting was -- was it in this 19 physical conference room? 20 A Yes, it was. 21 Q What was -- what is your -- let me ask it 22 this way. What was discussed at that meeting? 23 A Annexation. 24 Q Was -- did you have an agenda -- 25 A No. 78 1 Q -- to discuss -- 2 A No. 3 Q Did you perceive the mayor had an agenda or 4 what he wanted to discuss? 5 A I don't recall an agenda other than he was 6 going to pursue annexation and requested our input. 7 Q And did you provide input? 8 A Yes. 9 Q What did you say? 10 A Why are you not annexing some individuals 11 within a community and you are others? And -- 12 Q Did you -- sorry, go ahead. 13 A And he said to me, "If they want to be 14 annexed, I'd be more than happy to annex." And I 15 said, "Well, they would be tickled to death to get the 16 sewer." And he said, "I do not have to either promise 17 or provide." I can't remember, which of the two. I 18 do not promise or provide utilities. 19 Q I'm going to follow up on that in a second. 20 Did you bring any documents with you to the 21 annexation? 22 A I don't think so. 23 Q Or to the meeting I should say. You 24 mentioned that there were, you had questions about why 25 certain people were in and certain people were out? 79 1 A Yes. 2 Q And I think we were looking at that document 3 with the yellow and -- 4 A Yes. 5 Q The orange and blue? 6 A No, yellow and blue. 7 Q Yellow and blue maps where you were I think 8 asking some of those questions? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Like why were people on one side of the 11 color line or the other in that map; right? 12 A Yes. 13 Q So is that a question that you've had from 14 the beginning? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Before we get to the mayor's response, did 17 you have any other questions that you asked of the 18 mayor that you remember? 19 A Yes, I asked him about trash pickup, and 20 from his I think his response was, "Yes, we provide 21 trash pickup" and I know that's -- I can remember who 22 asked whether it was me or one of the other trustees 23 that said, "So we can continue the trash pickup, yes, 24 but will the City pay for trash pickup when you're 25 annexed"? So to the City, so they'd be paying two. 80 1 Q If they chose to continue with the existing 2 service? 3 A Correct 4 Q What other questions do you remember being 5 asked? 6 A Residents asked me about their animals, some 7 of their animals that they had would they be still be 8 able to continue having like chickens or whatever they 9 had. I'm just using that as an example. And he said, 10 "Yes. Provided there isn't over X amount and that you 11 have sufficient pending for them -- pinning for them." 12 The question was, "Can I still shoot my 13 gun?" I don't think this was ever answered. I don't 14 recall that one, but I did know that was one that was 15 asked. I can't recall anything else. It's been too 16 long. 17 Q The Exhibit 65 says the meeting duration was 18 45 minutes -- 19 A Yes. 20 Q Does that sound about how long the meeting 21 lasted? 22 A Yes. 23 Q So let's go back to the comment about other 24 people -- the mayor's comment that you described as 25 along the lines of if they want to be annexed. We can 81 1 annex them. The comment about utilities as precisely 2 as you remember it, what did the mayor say? 3 A Again, I'm going to say this that he said, 4 "If they want to be annexed, all they've to do is let 5 us know they want to be annexed" and I said, "That 6 would be great because Fullerton Pike is the one that 7 would love to have city sewer and city water." And he 8 said, "I don't" and this is -- I got to fill in this 9 word. "I do not have to promise or provide city 10 utilities." 11 Q Are you saying he said one of the other, you 12 don't remember which? 13 A I don't remember if it was promised or 14 provide. 15 Q Okay. But it was one of the two. 16 A Yes. 17 Q Was there discussion about -- well, let me 18 back up first. The land owners are residents in 19 Fullerton Pike, was it your understanding that they 20 were on wells and septics? 21 A They with on septics, not wells. They are 22 on Van Buren Water. 23 Q Where does Van Buren get its water from? 24 A Right off of 45 and -- 25 Q Do they purchase it wholesale from the City 82 1 of Bloomington? 2 A I'm -- I'm assuming, yes. 3 Q So the lines were already present? 4 A Correct. 5 Q And when the Van Buren Fire -- when Van 6 Buren had its own fire department, if there was a call 7 in an area where the City water lines existed is it 8 your understanding that they used the City water -- 9 hooked into the City hydrants? 10 A I'm going to say I'm not sure of that 11 because I do know that Van Buren Water has fire 12 hydrants. 13 Q Right. 14 A But it's still -- again whether City 15 provides that water or not. 16 Q Okay. So when the mayor -- so the land 17 owners and residents of Fullerton Pike had expressed 18 to you an interest in potentially getting hooked into 19 the City sewer and wastewater system? 20 A Yes and no. Okay. 21 Q Yeah, explain the qualifications of the 22 answer. 23 A Yes. At one time I lived in Garden Acres, 24 which is the community that I'm talking about. In 25 1971, my husband and I purchased a home there. When 83 1 we purchased a home two weeks after we moved in, we 2 had a notice that all water would be shut off and that 3 we had X amount of time in which to fix the sewer line 4 or the septic line, okay? And we were at what do we 5 do, you know. 6 So my husband worked at that time for the 7 City of Bloomington. He contacts city utilities. 8 City utilities told him that wasn't that far away and 9 they wouldn't have to have a lift station for the 10 sewer, so therefore he could hook on. We hooked on. 11 One road over was an individual that lived there that 12 was my best friend and behind her house was her mother 13 who was on septic and had Van Buren Water, but they 14 didn't have the sewers, okay. 15 And she was constantly upset about not being 16 able to hook on at that time. She's since passed and 17 I believe there is an individual now that owns that 18 home, but if you go east of that -- or I'm sorry west 19 of that the three houses that are on the same road as 20 her was not annexed. 21 Along with her mother, which has also passed 22 on Fullerton Pike and there's like three or four homes 23 along there. They would have liked to have had city 24 sewer. 25 Q So when in your scenario, you're describing 84 1 when your husband talked to people at the City of 2 Bloomington utilities about hooking into the sewer -- 3 A Yes 4 Q Was it your understanding that the Barrow 5 family had to pay for that connection? 6 A Yes. 7 Q So in the meeting with the mayor when he 8 said that he did not have to -- either the "promise 9 utilities or I do not have to provide utilities" was 10 that in the context of who pays for it or was that 11 just at all? 12 A No. That was not in anything on the context 13 because later is when I said to myself, "Rita, why 14 didn't you say, the reason he will not provide that is 15 because there'd have to be a lift station." 16 Q Is that your conclusion just based on -- 17 A Just on me. 18 Q Your own thoughts? 19 A My own. 20 Q The mayor did not say that? 21 A No. 22 Q Let me -- sometimes when I ask a question, 23 the way I just asked it and you answered no, there's a 24 double negative in it. So let me ask it this way. 25 Did the mayor say anything in the meeting about a lift 85 1 station? 2 A No, nor did I. 3 Q Okay. And nor did anyone else; correct? 4 A Correct. 5 Q Did the mayor -- other than in the context 6 of utilities, did the mayor say anything about whether 7 he had to either promise or provide any type of city 8 services? 9 A No, I think we -- specifically he was 10 speaking about city water and city sewer. 11 Q This will be 66. 12 (Exhibit 66 was marked for 13 identification.) 14 Ms. Barrow, do you have Exhibit 66 in front 15 of you? 16 A Yes. 17 Q You know what Nextdoor is; right? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Describe for us what Nextdoor is? 20 A It is a website that people join to let them 21 know, okay, where it is. 22 Q And it's kind of organized geographically? 23 A Absolutely. 24 Q Yeah. And are you a member of the Nextdoor 25 Eastern Green -- Nextdoor group? 86 1 A Yes. 2 Q Does that cover or extend into Monroe 3 County? 4 A Yes. 5 Q You see your name there where it says -- 6 A Yes, I do. 7 Q Rita Barrow airport. Do you understand what 8 the reference to the airport is there? 9 A We now have yard signs for annexation. 10 Q Right. Hold on. But it says Rita Barrow, 11 airport. Did you understand what the reference to the 12 airport is there? Do you live close -- is your office 13 close to the airport? 14 A The office is close. Yes, it's across the 15 road from the airport. 16 Q Right. So do you understand that on 17 Nextdoor it kind of assigns a neighborhood or area to 18 where each individual person is when they register 19 their account? You may -- if you don't know that's 20 fine. 21 A I don't understand what you're asking. 22 Q Yes. So like when you sign up for a 23 Nextdoor account and you join a group -- 24 A Mm-hmm. 25 Q There typically is an option to identify 87 1 where you are within that group, if you're in a 2 particular neighborhood. 3 A Yes. 4 Q So do you know if the airport reference 5 there is something that you filled in or provided when 6 you registered your Nextdoor account? 7 A No, I would say more than likely that's when 8 they found me on 2123 Kirby Road because there's Kirby 9 Road and the airport is right across the road from me. 10 Q Right. So the post here, you started it 11 read it. You say we now have yard signs for 12 annexation -- 13 A Mm-hmm. 14 Q And this it -- this note or this post is 15 available to anyone who's in this group with the right 16 settings. 17 A Correct. 18 Q So it will include people in the annexation 19 area, but it would include people who were beyond that 20 too? 21 A Correct. 22 Q To receive you will need it stop by our 23 office at 2123 South Kirby Road, do you -- 24 A Yes. 25 Q Where did the annexation signs come from? 88 1 A CRAA. 2 Q And were these, so you can have a sign in 3 favor of something and a sign opposed to something; 4 right? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Were these signs in favor of annexation? 7 A I don't recall. 8 Q Were they signs opposing annexation? 9 A I know that some of them were, yes. These 10 are the ones that I had in my vehicle. 11 Q Have you ever seen -- have you ever received 12 a sign from County Residents Against Annexation that 13 said we're in favor of annexation? 14 A No. 15 Q Kind of would be contrary to the name; 16 right? 17 A Correct. 18 Q So is it your testimony that all of the 19 signs that people could retrieve from 2123 South Kirby 20 Road were in your vehicle? 21 A I don't know that all of them were. And the 22 reason I'm saying that is because the -- the signs 23 were brought in and put into the office, okay. Then 24 we took them out of the office. People came in to 25 pick them up that had ordered them. 89 1 Q When they came to pick them up, who helped 2 them retrieve the sign? 3 A Anybody that was there that answered the 4 bell. 5 Q A bell at the front desk? 6 A Mm-hmm. 7 Q Yes? You have to say "yes." 8 A Yes. 9 Q Thank you. And then to retrieve the sign 10 are you saying that whoever was assisting the person 11 requesting the sign would go out to your car, get the 12 sign? 13 A No. I'm not saying that. Again, I'm going 14 to say that if the signs were delivered, okay, and put 15 in the foyer of the office, that's where they were and 16 people would come in and pick them up. 17 Q All right. So somebody in the office would 18 assist them and whoever answered the bell in 19 retrieving the sign? 20 A Yes. What they would say is, "Here's the 21 sign." 22 Q Okay. And they were being -- the employees 23 who assisted were that were being paid by the township 24 trustee at the time? 25 A I'm trying to think whether it was the 90 1 volunteers that I had. 2 Q Well, you just said it was whoever answered 3 the bell, so if it was an employee who answered the 4 bell that person was being paid by the township 5 trustee; right? 6 A Yes, because they'd point, yes. 7 Q Did you instruct your employees not to 8 participate in annexation matters? 9 A No, it was not mine to say, yes or no. 10 Q Did you instruct them not to participate in 11 annexation matters while they were at work? 12 A No, I didn't have a problem with that. That 13 was there's. 14 Q How did you ensure that employees did not 15 participate in annexation opposition activities while 16 they were on the clock? 17 A I can't think of a way. They have their 18 office. I have mine. 19 Q Do you understand that if you authorize the 20 use of township funds for unauthorized or non- 21 township expenses that you can be personally liable 22 for those expenses? 23 A Yes, the State Board of Accounts has already 24 went through that with me. 25 Q Right. If you'd look at Exhibit 63 back in 91 1 front of you, if you would, please. This is that May 2 15, 2023, letter from the State that we looked at 3 previously when we looked at the $5 million account 4 balance as of the end of 2022. On the first page of 5 Exhibit 63 now, on the very first page under "Improper 6 use of public funds, condition and context." 7 Do you agree with the assessment that $3,099 8 of township funds were used to fund the -- or pay for 9 the printing of information related to the campaign 10 against annexation? 11 A I'm looking for the dollars, where was it? 12 Q It's under "Condition and context" at the 13 end of that first line. 14 A I see it now. Okay. 15 Q So just a dollar short of $3,100; right? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Was township funds that you used to pay for 18 some -- to a local printing company for the campaign 19 against annexation; correct? 20 A No, it wasn't for the campaign. It was to 21 notify them of the annexation. 22 Q So do you dispute the State's 23 characterization that the $3,100 was paid to a local 24 printing company for resources to campaign against the 25 annexation? 92 1 A No, I don't dispute that. They did do that. 2 Q Was that a payment that you approved? 3 A Yes, it was. 4 Q Did any portion of that -- well, what was 5 the local printing company? 6 A Baugh Printing. 7 Q Can you spell that? 8 A B-A-U-G-H. 9 Q What did Baugh Printing print? 10 A They printed a postcard, front and back, and 11 mailed it. 12 Q So the Baugh Printing handled the mailing as 13 well? 14 A I don't know. I haven't used Baugh for a 15 long time now, so I don't know. 16 Q So you -- Baugh printed the postcards at 17 your office's request? 18 A Mm-hmm. 19 Q You have to say "yes." 20 A Yes. 21 Q And who were the postcards mailed to? 22 A The postcards were sent to all individuals 23 being annexed. 24 Q In Van Buren Township only? 25 A No. 93 1 Q So at the time there were seven annexation 2 areas; correct? 3 A No. There were five after that. 4 Q So 1A is on -- you familiar with the -- 5 generally the location of the areas? 6 A Yes. 7 Q So 1A is on the westside of Bloomington? 8 A Yes. 9 Q 1B is on the southwest side; correct? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Two or 1C is also on the southwest side; 12 correct? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Two is on the southeast side? 15 A Yes. 16 Q And three, four, and five are these islands 17 on the westside of the -- 18 A Correct. 19 Q So the Van Buren Township Trustee paid for 20 the printing of postcards for all seven of those 21 areas? 22 A Not all seven. 23 Q Which areas? 24 A The five. 25 Q Which five? 94 1 A The 1A -- I'm sorry, yes, the counting 2 because I'm counting like Van Buren Township. Yes, 3 there are seven. There were seven. 4 Q Who paid for the postage? 5 A It was with the contract with Baugh 6 Printing. 7 Q So it was part of the $3,100? 8 A Correct. 9 Q And if you look at page 63 -- I'm sorry, 10 Exhibit 63, the page ending 263. 11 A Yes. 12 Q Is this your written response to the State 13 Board of Accounts? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Now it's your response is dated May 11th, 16 but the letter on the first page is dated May 15th 17 both in the year of 2023. 18 A Mm-hmm. 19 Q Do you know why your letter -- your comments 20 to the State Board of Accounts are dated four days 21 before the date of the letter? Like did they let you 22 know what the finding was going to be and then you 23 submitted your written response? 24 A Mm-hmm. 25 Q You have to say "yes"? 95 1 A Yes. 2 Q Had you ever received a letter like Exhibit 3 63 before sort of a comment on the review of the 4 financials that said township funds were used 5 inappropriately? 6 A No. 7 Q So this was the only one in the 14 years? 8 A That I can recall and I think I would have 9 recalled from the State Board of Accounts. 10 Q And in your response to the State Board of 11 Accounts or to whom it may concern, did you 12 acknowledge that it was an improper use of township 13 funds? 14 A Yes, I did. 15 Q And your response provides a look at your 16 thought process for why you did it; correct? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Have you reimbursed the township for those 19 funds? 20 A No. Because the State Board of Accounts 21 told me I did not have to. 22 Q When did they tell you that? 23 A I have a -- after whenever they called me 24 concerning my audit. They said they understood and 25 they took in consideration my message to them. My 96 1 letter to them or email and no. 2 Q Is that confirmed in a document somewhere? 3 A I have it, yes. 4 Q What is this? Is it a letter from the State 5 Board of Accounts? 6 A No, it's an email. 7 Q An email from who? 8 A From the auditor that did my audit. 9 Q Were there other occasions not captured by 10 this audit where township funds were used to support 11 the opposition to the annexation? 12 A Not to my awareness. 13 Q On page 263, of Exhibit 63, you have a count 14 of residents for area 1A, 1B, 1C all Van Buren? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Are those a number of people or a number of 17 homes? 18 A Number of homes. 19 Q So where it says residents T-S, it should be 20 residences with a C-E-S? 21 A Residential, yeah, probably, yes. 22 Q So this is not a population count? 23 A No. 24 Q Where did you get the figures to show the 25 number of residential units in Van Buren Township? 97 1 A From the City attorney. 2 Q Mike Rouker? 3 A Yes. 4 Q Did he tell you where he got those figures? 5 A No. 6 Q Have you ever reviewed the City's fiscal 7 plan for population purposes? 8 A No. 9 Q Have you reviewed the fiscal plan? 10 A No. 11 Q Is it accurate to say that the materials you 12 reviewed concerning the financial impact of the 13 annexation on the County in Van Buren Township would 14 be the Reedy and Baker Tilly information? 15 A Yes. 16 MR. MCNEIL: I have no further 17 questions for you at this time. We do need to make 18 copies of your folder. Mr. Heeb may have some 19 questions. 20 MR. HEEB: Just I think one, 21 Ms. Barrow. 22 EXAMINATION 23 BY MR. HEEB: 24 Q Regarding the financial impact on the Van 25 Buren Township Trustee office, do you also rely upon 98 1 your experience and your understanding of municipal 2 finance? 3 A Yes. 4 Q And regarding your understanding of the 5 financial impact on the residents of areas 1A and 6 1B -- 7 A Yes 8 Q -- within Van Buren Township, do you also 9 rely on your experience and interactions with them? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Okay. 12 MR. HEEB: I have no other questions. 13 THE WITNESS: May I say something? 14 EXAMINATION 15 BY MR. MCNEIL: 16 Q I will ask you a question because that's how 17 depositions work. Ms. Barrow, is there anything else 18 you want to say about this process, please do. 19 A Yes. 20 Q Okay. Please, go ahead. 21 A Thank you. I was elected as a -- from Van 22 Buren Township. My position and my responsibility and 23 my obligation is to Van Buren residents. When they 24 ask a question or they have a concern, I want them to 25 come to me and let me help them in any way that I 99 1 possibly can. This also includes when they come to me 2 and ask me who do I go to get city water or city 3 sewer. I will look up the phone number. I will look 4 up the address and I will tell them, you must make an 5 appointment before you're allowed into the building 6 for the City. 7 Water can -- can you what water state that I 8 need to go to for this house? Yes, if it's Van Buren, 9 you have to go and make an appointment or if they -- 10 if you talk to the individual that's there through the 11 speaker and this has been a while back. I don't know 12 if they still have it or not, then you can talk to 13 them about hooking on. I protect my residents that's 14 my concern. That's my responsibility. 15 Q Do you have a responsibility for land owners 16 in Perry township? 17 A I'm sorry. 18 Q Do you have a responsibility for land owners 19 in Perry township? 20 A No, I do not. 21 Q Do you have a responsibility for land owners 22 in Richland Township? 23 A No, I do not. 24 Q Do you have a responsibility for land owners 25 in Bloomington Township? 100 1 A No, I do not. 2 Q But yet when your office paid $3,100 for a 3 postcard, you were -- you knew at the time that they 4 were being mailed to residents in Perry, Richland, and 5 Bloomington Township; correct? 6 A Yes. 7 Q Okay. 8 MR. MCNEIL: I have no further 9 questions. 10 MR. HEEB: No further questions. Thank 11 you. 12 THE REPORTER: All right. 13 MR. HEEB: And then, I guess we're 14 marking the -- what she has in her folder all as 64 -- 15 or are we going -- 16 MR. UNGER: It could be 66. 17 THE REPORTER: We're up to 67. 18 (Exhibit 67 was marked for 19 identification.) 20 Just a couple of quick clean-ups. 21 Orders same as last deposition? I just wanted to 22 clean up transcript orders on the record real quick 23 first. Which was orders same as last deposition? 24 MR. HEEB: For me, yes. 25 THE REPORTER: Okay. And signature? 101 1 MR. HEEB: I can explain. 2 Rita, the court reporter can send you a 3 copy of the transcript, which will have all your 4 testimony written out, and you can review it and look 5 for things like spelling errors or punctuation or 6 things along those lines. It's not an opportunity to 7 change your testimony, but an opportunity to make sure 8 that there aren't any errors. 9 THE WITNESS: Okay. 10 MR. HEEB: You can either do that and 11 ask for that to happen or you can say, I waive 12 signature, which means that you are waiving your right 13 to review the transcript and then basically accepting 14 that or trusting the court reporter to type it 15 accurately. 16 THE WITNESS: I want to review it, 17 please. 18 MR. HEEB: Okay. 19 THE REPORTER: All right. In that 20 case, we're now off the record at 12:57 p.m. 21 (Signature not waived.) 22 (Whereupon, at 12:57 p.m., the 23 proceeding was concluded.) 24 25 102 1 CERTIFICATE OF DEPOSITION OFFICER 2 I, ANDREW PRONSCHINSKE, the officer before 3 whom the foregoing proceedings were taken, do hereby 4 certify that any witness(es) in the foregoing 5 proceedings, prior to testifying, were duly sworn; 6 that the proceedings were recorded by me and 7 thereafter reduced to typewriting by a qualified 8 transcriptionist; that said digital audio recording of 9 said proceedings are a true and accurate record to the 10 best of my knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am 11 neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any 12 of the parties to the action in which this was taken; 13 and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of 14 any counsel or attorney employed by the parties 15 hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the 16 outcome of this action. <%27071,Signature%> 17 ANDREW PRONSCHINSKE 18 Notary Public in and for the 19 State of Indiana 20 21 22 23 24 25 103 1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER 2 I, CAMILLE MONTGOMERY, do hereby certify 3 that this transcript was prepared from the digital 4 audio recording of the foregoing proceeding, that said 5 transcript is a true and accurate record of the 6 proceedings to the best of my knowledge, skills, and 7 ability; that I am neither counsel for, related to, 8 nor employed by any of the parties to the action in 9 which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a 10 relative or employee of any counsel or attorney 11 employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or 12 otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. 13 14 <%32486,Signature%> 15 CAMILLE MONTGOMERY 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Veritext Legal Solutions 1100 Superior Ave Suite 1820 Cleveland, Ohio 44114 Phone: 216-523-1313 To: Ryan Heeb, Esq. Case Name: County Residents Against Annexation, Inc., et al. v. City of Bloomington, Indiana, et al. Veritext Reference Number: 6485975 Witness: Rita Barrow Deposition Date: 3/14/2024 Dear Sir/Madam: The deposition transcript taken in the above-referenced matter, with the reading and signing having not been expressly waived, has been completed and is available for review and signature. Please call our office to make arrangements for a convenient location to accomplish this or if you prefer a certified transcript can be purchased. If the errata is not returned within thirty days of your receipt of this letter, the reading and signing will be deemed waived. Sincerely, Production Department NO NOTARY REQUIRED IN CA 1 DEPOSITION REVIEW CERTIFICATION OF WITNESS 2 ASSIGNMENT REFERENCE NO: 6485975 3 CASE NAME: County Residents Against Annexation, Inc., et al. v. City of Bloomington, Indiana, et al. DATE OF DEPOSITION: 3/14/2024 4 WITNESS' NAME: Rita Barrow 5 In accordance with the Rules of Civil Procedure, I have read the entire transcript of 6 my testimony or it has been read to me. 7 I have made no changes to the testimony as transcribed by the court reporter. 8 _______________ ________________________ 9 Date Rita Barrow 10 Sworn to and subscribed before me, a Notary Public in and for the State and County, 11 the referenced witness did personally appear and acknowledge that: 12 They have read the transcript; 13 They signed the foregoing Sworn Statement; and 14 Their execution of this Statement is of their free act and deed. 15 I have affixed my name and official seal 16 this ______ day of_____________________, 20____. 17 ___________________________________ 18 Notary Public 19 ___________________________________ Commission Expiration Date 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 DEPOSITION REVIEW CERTIFICATION OF WITNESS 2 ASSIGNMENT REFERENCE NO: 6485975 3 CASE NAME: County Residents Against Annexation, Inc., et al. v. City of Bloomington, Indiana, et al. DATE OF DEPOSITION: 3/14/2024 4 WITNESS' NAME: Rita Barrow 5 In accordance with the Rules of Civil Procedure, I have read the entire transcript of 6 my testimony or it has been read to me. 7 I have listed my changes on the attached Errata Sheet, listing page and line numbers as 8 well as the reason(s) for the change(s). 9 I request that these changes be entered as part of the record of my testimony. 10 I have executed the Errata Sheet, as well 11 as this Certificate, and request and authorize that both be appended to the transcript of my 12 testimony and be incorporated therein. 13 _______________ ________________________ Date Rita Barrow 14 Sworn to and subscribed before me, a 15 Notary Public in and for the State and County, the referenced witness did personally appear 16 and acknowledge that: 17 They have read the transcript; They have listed all of their corrections 18 in the appended Errata Sheet; They signed the foregoing Sworn 19 Statement; and Their execution of this Statement is of 20 their free act and deed. 21 I have affixed my name and official seal 22 this ______ day of_____________________, 20____. 23 ___________________________________ Notary Public 24 ___________________________________ 25 Commission Expiration Date 1 ERRATA SHEET VERITEXT LEGAL SOLUTIONS MIDWEST 2 ASSIGNMENT NO: 6485975 3 PAGE/LINE(S) / CHANGE /REASON 4 ___________________________________________________ 5 ___________________________________________________ 6 ___________________________________________________ 7 ___________________________________________________ 8 ___________________________________________________ 9 ___________________________________________________ 10 ___________________________________________________ 11 ___________________________________________________ 12 ___________________________________________________ 13 ___________________________________________________ 14 ___________________________________________________ 15 ___________________________________________________ 16 ___________________________________________________ 17 ___________________________________________________ 18 ___________________________________________________ 19 _______________ ________________________ 20 Date Rita Barrow 21 SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO BEFORE ME THIS ________ 22 DAY OF ________________________, 20______ . 23 ___________________________________ Notary Public 24 ___________________________________ 25 Commission Expiration Date